Mad Men (contains spoilers)

Joyful · 10-18-2010, 01:30 PM

Even though this season just ended, I thought that it still deserves it's own thread. I have been watching this show non stop for the last month and would love to talk about it.

Spoilers below regarding season finale............................................ .............

I have mixed feelings regarding the finale. The Don and Megan engagement was so random that at first I thought it was a dream sequence. Part of me feels duped by the plot line and the other part of me can't stop thinking about it, so overall I guess it was an effective cliffhanger.
Don is looking for a mother figure for him and the kids. His life was spiraling out of control and he wanted a home and a safety net to return to. Will he be faithful? No way, but he needed a nurturer to take care of his kids and him, so he chose Megan. Dr. Faye was a much better intellectual match, but he wasn't looking for that. I loved the milk shake spilling in the restaurant, and Don's initial hostile reaction (Betty's would have been the same), but Megan's calm reaction setting the tone and cooling things down. My prediction is that Season 5 starts off with them already married. And I loved Sterling's reaction to the news!

I loved the last scene with Peggy and Joan in Joan's office. I was so mad that the engagement stole Peggy's chance in the limelight.

I also loved the last scene with Don and Betty in the dark empty kitchen. It was the perfect ending. I wish they had ended it that way anyway.

I knew that Joan did not abort the baby. That should make things interesting for next season.

Please watch the finale and tell me your thoughts. I am totally obsessed with the show at this point and need to at least talk about it if I can't watch new episodes. How long until season 5?

jasmineha · 10-18-2010, 03:29 PM

I was a little surprised that there wasn't much business talk, it was pretty Don's personal stuff. I felt so bad for Faye, but I see what you mean Joyful, he doesn't want someone that is his (somewhat) equal. I noticed the milkshake incident too, and thought just what you did about Betty. I'm pretty surprised about this Megan business, I kinda liked Don single...
Was Peggy crying????? Crying because Don was engaged, or because it took the spotlight off of her? I thought that Peggy and Don's exchange was great, I love their dynamic. I loved the scene where Peggy went to Joan's office too, a lot of the time Joan seems a little standoffish to Peggy, I thought the female bonding was great.

Betty was purposely waiting for Don right?? It's not surprising that she is unhappy, I think she is probably clinically depressed and can't be happy in any situation. Also, Sally's character is getting better. Maybe she just isn't being as bratty anymore.

Joan..... I don't even think I have an opinion on it.. All I gotta say is, at least her husband isn't seeming like such an ass anymore. That one scene, (was it last season?) where he practically forced her, and had some sort of anger with all the dr business, made me wonder why she was with him...

Whew! Alright, that's it for now.

Dean C · 10-18-2010, 03:29 PM

I felt like it was a dream sequence too. I guess some days you just wake up and find happiness in what's in front of you. It's probably happened to all of us but with Don we are so used to seeing him be rational, it was about time we saw him act this way. The precursor to this was obviously his outburst in the NY Times

srahman24 · 10-18-2010, 07:33 PM

Roger's reaction to the news was my absolute favorite line of the season!

And as for everything else, I pretty much agree with everything you guys said.

I definitely thought Betty was purposefully waiting for Don. I wonder if she was missing her old life, and if that's been coming for a while or if it was just because they were finally tying up all the loose ends of her old life and it was official that she couldn't have it back whenever she wanted?

I thought the engagement was a little strange. After all Don went through in telling Betty and Faye about Dick... now he's back with someone who doesn't really know anything about him and trying for a fresh start? Reminded me a lot of what Henry told Betty about not being able to ever move on, and just having to move forward with all your baggage.

Loved the Peggy/Joan scene too! Definitely saw it as a sign of the times, when the pretty gigantic leaps that headstrong, smart women were making were always overshadowed by new marriages...

mariaoran · 10-18-2010, 08:15 PM

Well that was one crazy episode. On that clearly highlighted how much Betty and Don are alike. They are both looking for that perfect house, the perfect family, the perfect partner, the perfect feeling that doesn't really exist.

Dr. Faye said it right. Don only likes the beginning of things, and that's why he keeps trying to re-invent himself (the new agency, the NYT add, Megan...). He doesn't really know whether he want to be Dick or Don, whether he want an Anna (Dr. Faye) or another Betty (Megan), and obviously ends up with the easy Don Draper choice. Seriously the first thing I thought when he proposed was "this HAS to be a dream" and the second was "He pulled a Roger!" blah. In the words of Season 3 Don Draper to Roger "Nobody thinks you're Happy, they think you are foolish."

He's going to regret this move next season I know it. And then there's Betty, she's an awful person seriously. Moving to another neighborhood is just another bratty move because things aren't the way they should be, nothing is perfect boohoo. Its the same thing. It's her trying to re-invent her life into what she thinks it is will make her happy. And what Henry told her about there not being fresh starts was brilliant (and it applies to Don too). That's why she was waiting for Don at the house, Henry is no longer the ideal of a man she thought she married. He is no longer "on her side"—of course no one's on your side, because you are wrong! Ugh, I can't talk about a Betty anymore.

And Peggy and Joan gossiping and smoking was THE best scene of the show. But I might be biased by the fact they are my favorites. But really it was nice to see them finally find themselves in a position where they are no longer fighting each other for the power, and instead realizing what they should really be fighting for is themselves as women, and equals. A reflexion of the times of course.

Its interesting to see how much Peggy has come since season one, and how much of himself Don sees in her. That scene when Peggy stays in the office and he just looks at her for the approval is priceless. And it also tells me that he has as many reservations about this marriage as Peggy does. He wouldn't need her approval otherwise. Which also makes me even surer that their marriage is not going to be a good one. But hey what do I know.

Finally, I want Joan to have a girl so bad. The end. Have to get back to work.

Joyful · 10-18-2010, 08:34 PM

jasmineha- I don't think that Peggy was crying. Was she? I too love the Don/Peggy dynamic. Kind of like a big brother/sister relationship. It's very fun to watch it grow over the seasons.
And I agree with your opinion about Betty. She was waiting for him. She is confused and selfish but this is typical to her character. I think that she wants Don back. I also think that they will hook up again next season when they are both married to others.

Dean- maybe. But I don't think that the marriage is going to end well.

Sharmin and Maria- Joan and Peggy bonding was great to see. I loved it too!
Sterling wins in my book for best lines "Did you get cancer?"
"Who the hell is that?!?!" and "We need drinks to celebrate, you get the ice"

I don't think that Megan is just like Betty. I think that Bethany was though. Megan is more like the perfect maternal figure (in Don's mind anyway). Maybe more like an Anna. But I agree, it won't end well.

hazey · 10-18-2010, 11:15 PM

Ideally, Don's proposal to Megan would be an act of a character that is neither Don Draper or Dick Whitman, but an act of a person Jon Hamm's character (whoever he is) has evolved into during the course of season 4. Don Draper is a demolished construct that can no longer exist as such. Dick Whitman is a distant memory, a cowardly boy that never got to go onward. Supposedly, S4 has been about this man's journey into something concrete, something tangible, something real. Something better. The man proposing to Megan ought to, therefore, be someone else. Someone new. We hope.

Most likely, though, this is Dick Whitman doing his Dick Whitman thing. A man, so profoundly weak and incapable of any kind of change, only ever seeking a mother’s love and care. Thus the never ending fall into his self-perpetuated abyss continues.

Although there wasn't really anything she could have said or done, Peggy's reaction to the engagement was so achingly reserved. This is the same man who on that heartbreaking night they spent at the office told her that he *has* to keep work and private separate, regarding his misstep with Allison. He *has* to keep work and private separate. What an immense f*cking hypocrite. (Excuse the language)
"You know, she reminds me of you." What is that supposed to mean? Is Peggy now to comprehend and approve of Don's absurd decision? She should have smacked that Clio award on his stupid head right then and there.

The real Don Draper's engagement ring to Anna….that Anna left to Dick….Anna, the paragon of unconditional love and friendship…..the only good and real thing Dick has ever known….he gave that ring to Megan.

Words fail to express my absolute discontent with that.

And then there's Megan. What’s her story? She played Don like a fiddle, told him what he wanted to hear, did what he wanted her to do. And he fell for it. Falling in love in Disneyland? Over a spilled milkshake? Haha. Is Matt Weiner for real? What's in it for Megan, though? She gets an unpredictable, broken wreck of a man… with children. Good luck, Megan!

***Favourite moment: Peggy flying into Ken's arms over success at Topaz*** --> The same man who unflatteringly referred to her as a "Gertrude Stein type" and compared her to a lobster ("because all the meat is in the tail"), when she gained pregnancy weight.

jasmineha · 10-19-2010, 12:37 AM

I just re-watched the Don/Peggy scene. Her eyes just look a little glisteny.. (Haha, so not a word, but whatever.) Her throat caught a little before she said "She's very beautiful". Peggy is all flushed when talking to Joan also.

cille · 10-19-2010, 08:33 AM

*Let me just say thanks for making this thread even though I was a complete idiot in the other thread about the spoilers*

Joyful · 10-19-2010, 10:18 AM

^ I did it for me too. I needed a place to obsess more thoroughly and without restraint

Joyful · 10-19-2010, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazey

"You know, she reminds me of you." What is that supposed to mean? Is Peggy now to comprehend and approve of Don's absurd decision? She should have smacked that Clio award on his stupid head right then and there.

This was so painful to watch. Her expression was spot on. A combo of disbelief, disgust, and yet still trying to be supportive. In what should have been her moment of glory. Ugh!

I hope that Megan gives those kids at least some temporary love and attention. I am loving Sally's character. And creepy Glen too.

As far as Betty goes, I just look at her as an attractive woman with a little girl's mentality. She is spoiled, selfish, depressed, and largely horrible (firing Carla-ugh!) but also so confused, checked out, and needing so badly to grow up.

eyeboogers · 10-19-2010, 02:20 PM

Matt Weiner Q&A about the season finale

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-4-of-mad-men/

jasmineha · 10-19-2010, 02:57 PM

I don't completely understand Betty's hatred of Glen.. I remember that he walked in on her in the bathroom and stuff, but crap, he's a little boy. Does anyone else get it?

Dean C · 10-19-2010, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasmineha

I don't completely understand Betty's hatred of Glen.. I remember that he walked in on her in the bathroom and stuff, but crap, he's a little boy. Does anyone else get it?

He tried to touch her as well didn't he?

Joyful · 10-19-2010, 04:44 PM

Inside Tomorrowland:

http://www.amctv.com/videos/mad-men/...d=105781979001

Dean C · 10-19-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joyful

Inside Tomorrowland:

http://www.amctv.com/videos/mad-men/...d=105781979001

Damn video is only for Yanks!

mariaoran · 10-19-2010, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joyful

Sharmin and Maria- Joan and Peggy bonding was great to see. I loved it too!
Sterling wins in my book for best lines "Did you get cancer?"
"Who the hell is that?!?!" and "We need drinks to celebrate, you get the ice"

I don't think that Megan is just like Betty. I think that Bethany was though. Megan is more like the perfect maternal figure (in Don's mind anyway). Maybe more like an Anna. But I agree, it won't end well.

I don't really mean that they are the same in terms of who they are. They have very different personalities, hair color, better with kids (but who isn't in comparisn to Betty..), etc... Though when she showed up at Don's room with her friend, all dressed-up in that black dress, all I could think of was Betty in her black and plunging dress in Italy, speaking italian (in Megan's case french...).
But what I really mean is to say that they represent the same person. Megan and Betty are both the pretty girls, they are not his social equals, they are not his intellectual equals, he cannot confide in them, and most of all they know nothing about him or who he is (not that he does either). I think when Megan said that he didn't care what he has done, that she knows who he is now was kind of a way to show that she likes Don for the idea he represents—the master of the pitch, the successful ad man, the pioneer, etc —but she doesn't know him. And so they'll never get to really be together. Just like he was never with Betty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazey

"You know, she reminds me of you."

Yes, that was a bull**** thing to say. Because besides the fact they were both Don's secretaries there is nothing alike between those too. Just because Megan told him she wants to be a copywriters someday just to get into his pants does not a Peggy make, ugh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasmineha

I don't completely understand Betty's hatred of Glen.. I remember that he walked in on her in the bathroom and stuff, but crap, he's a little boy. Does anyone else get it?

I think Betty it's simply jealous of Sally and Glen's relationship. I think she feels that the connection Sally has with Glen was hers first, and so wants to deny Sally of that. Its just another childish thing to do... I think. She might even be a bit jealous of Sally in general.

hazey · 10-19-2010, 06:50 PM

About January Jones and the character she plays...

Betty is such an easy target, so obviously hateable it's unjust. Not fair to Betty and not fair to the actress that portrays her. A lot of who Betty is now is a direct result of irreparable damage done by Don. Most people seems to ignore that. Season 1 Betty is an entirely different person. She is anxious, yes, but she is also kind, loving and docile. It physically hurts to watch Betty and Don in season 1 from where we are now in the series. In the episode where she gets a part-time modeling gig for Coca Cola and is unable to be at home every day and make dinner for her family, she apologises for whipping up some leftovers, to which Don says that she's the greatest mother the children could ever ask for. It's a blow to the head every time I watch it again.

Whenever the writers allow the role of Betty to be something else besides a mother and a housewife, Januray Jones is quite good actually. Season 3 was Betty's season in that respect. She is great in the Rome episode. Her closing line of dialogue from that episode is so spot-on and jarring, one of my favourite endings on MM. And she was downright perfect when she finally confronted Don with that box of documents and photographs. Also, in this finale when she bows her head down and can't look Don in the eyes to say congratulations. She was fighting tears so terribly hard, I kept whispering "just hang in there, girl". Loved her when she rushed to the toilet all utterly distraught and shaking upon seeing Don with Bethany at the restaurant. She dropped her purse, couldn't even light a cigarette.

It is truly sad that Betty can't see the error of her ways and has turned into the one person she's feared the most throughout her childhood: her own mother. Earlier this season I was struck by the similarity of these two shots, which in a way confirmed what I had always suspected: Viola had to have been the one who's raised Betty and William, the same way that Carla is raising Sally and Bobby.

jasmineha · 10-19-2010, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean C

He tried to touch her as well didn't he?

I don't recall that. He did want a piece of her hair, I think she gave it to him too..

dawno · 10-19-2010, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasmineha

I don't recall that. He did want a piece of her hair, I think she gave it to him too..

I can't remember if it was in season 1 or 2, but there was a time when Glen was hiding in the Draper's back yard in Sally's playhouse (?). I recall him saying something to Betty about running off and eloping... Betty freaked and called Glen's mother.

As for the hair, yes I do recall she gave him a lock of her hair.

I think Betty is jealous of Sally & Glens relationship in almost a twisted ex-boyfriend kind of way.

Joyful · 10-20-2010, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean C

Damn video is only for Yanks!

Oh no! Sorry! I will give you the gist of it.
According to Matt Weiner:
The theme of the episode and the season is about who you want to be and the clash between the realistic part of you that accepts who you are and the somewhat delusional quality that says I can be who ever I want. It's an investigation of a man "between marriages". With the business so unsettled, he has to get his personal life together.
Megan is a bright and hopeful light to him. Don needs to be married. He needs the structure.
Betty and Megan are 2 very different people but similar in that they both build a relationship with Don without knowing the whole truth.
Don almost got there. He almost changed and became a better person but he fell short.
Don looking out the window at the end- this may not be the solution to his existential crisis but he is still searching.
Joan- last chance for a baby. Desperately wants a child. Hoping her husband will look the other way.

Joyful · 10-20-2010, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariaoran

I don't really mean that they are the same in terms of who they are. They have very different personalities, hair color, better with kids (but who isn't in comparisn to Betty..), etc... Though when she showed up at Don's room with her friend, all dressed-up in that black dress, all I could think of was Betty in her black and plunging dress in Italy, speaking italian (in Megan's case french...).
But what I really mean is to say that they represent the same person. Megan and Betty are both the pretty girls, they are not his social equals, they are not his intellectual equals, he cannot confide in them, and most of all they know nothing about him or who he is (not that he does either). I think when Megan said that he didn't care what he has done, that she knows who he is now was kind of a way to show that she likes Don for the idea he represents—the master of the pitch, the successful ad man, the pioneer, etc —but she doesn't know him. And so they'll never get to really be together. Just like he was never with Betty.

I understand what you mean. I don't think that we know enough about Megan yet to answer this. But he didn't tell her about his past, and this not a good sign of things to come. I loved Betty in the episode in Italy. I felt that she finally relaxed, had fun and was her lovely charming self. Bethany, on the other hand, seemed just like Betty to me.

Joyful · 10-20-2010, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazey

About January Jones and the character she plays...

Betty is such an easy target, so obviously hateable it's unjust. Not fair to Betty and not fair to the actress that portrays her. A lot of who Betty is now is a direct result of irreparable damage done by Don. Most people seems to ignore that. Season 1 Betty is an entirely different person. She is anxious, yes, but she is also kind, loving and docile. It physically hurts to watch Betty and Don in season 1 from where we are now in the series. In the episode where she gets a part-time modeling gig for Coca Cola and is unable to be at home every day and make dinner for her family, she apologises for whipping up some leftovers, to which Don says that she's the greatest mother the children could ever ask for. It's a blow to the head every time I watch it again.

Whenever the writers allow the role of Betty to be something else besides a mother and a housewife, Januray Jones is quite good actually. Season 3 was Betty's season in that respect. She is great in the Rome episode. Her closing line of dialogue from that episode is so spot-on and jarring, one of my favourite endings on MM. And she was downright perfect when she finally confronted Don with that box of documents and photographs. Also, in this finale when she bows her head down and can't look Don in the eyes to say congratulations. She was fighting tears so terribly hard, I kept whispering "just hang in there, girl". Loved her when she rushed to the toilet all utterly distraught and shaking upon seeing Don with Bethany at the restaurant. She dropped her purse, couldn't even light a cigarette.

It is truly sad that Betty can't see the error of her ways and has turned into the one person she's feared the most throughout her childhood: her own mother. Earlier this season I was struck by the similarity of these two shots, which in a way confirmed what I had always suspected: Viola had to have been the one who's raised Betty and William, the same way that Carla is raising Sally and Bobby.

You make some excellent points. I am surprised to say that I didn't really realize that either. Now I want to re-watch season one.

Daniel · 10-21-2010, 09:04 AM

being careful not to read any of the above, only stated watching this 3 days ago. Only one more episode of Season 1 to go - I'm way behind.
I like it.

Joyful · 10-21-2010, 12:58 PM

^ I was way behind too. I watched all 4 seasons in a month.

hazey · 10-21-2010, 09:42 PM

Mad Men newcomers, no worries about catching up, the seasons are fairly short. Besides, I think many a MM fan would trade places with you in an instant. How exciting it is to be new to it all. Season 1.... crikey, I was there three years ago, completely unaware of what was yet to come.

I think I'll give S4 a second go soon. Not just the individual episodes because I tend to do that a lot, but try to watch the whole thing back to back in maybe two days time. A lot has happened and some of it didn't really ring true.

It'd be cool if this thread didn't die away in the absence of brand new episodes, July 2011 seems so far away :-( We could discuss favourite and memorable moments, scenes, characters, endings, etc.

mariaoran · 10-23-2010, 10:44 PM

^ I agree, we should keep discussing, because we have to make up for the past four seasons of not discussing it : )

Since I know you are a big Betty enthusiast Haze, lets talk about Betty Draper/Francis. Because as much as I really don't like her, talking about the countless amounts of bad decisions Don has made and how horrible of a person he is seems even more daunting.

I agree with you that season 3 was the best season to love Betty, mainly because she stood up for herself and did Something (!), for a second she wasn't just some helpless housewife trapped in some perfect little world. But I do think that the reason that this season has been so frustrating for me, and the reason I have developed such strong feeling against Betty's behavior is that when she finally came around to saying something, realized she can have an opinion (and can vocalize it), that she could rebel, all she could do is be abusive to everyone around her. And that's frustrating!

Actually, what's even more frustrating is her relationship with Sally. Because on the one hand I can sympathize and say that maybe she is just being the same way her mother was with her, and that would be kind of understandable. But on the other hand I feel like the reason she is the way she is with Sally is because she is jealous. And that is extremely sad.

I don't have that many favorite Betty moments but the Italy episode, her confrontation with Don, and this season's scene with her at the children's psychologist's office have done it for me. I think that last one was great because it showed she could be different, she turned into a softer and a totally different (good) Betty when the doctor validated her feelings. She just wants love, and sadly she won't get it from anyone if she keeps on her path to ultra bitchiness and abusiveness.

I'm still rooting for her though. I think her marriage with Don was certainly a catalyst for her unraveling, but I don't think all f Betty's troubles are Don's doing (wasn't her mother a bit, or a lot, abusive to her?). So I highly doubt we'll see her change for the better any time soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazey

Januray Jones is quite good actually.

I agree with this. I think most people who say she's a bad actress are projecting their dislike for Betty the character. But that just proves she's good, no?

jasmineha · 10-24-2010, 01:35 AM

What did yall think of Betty's dad? When he showed up, then was going to live with them, for some reason I thought he was going to molest Sally. I thought maybe he had molested Betty. I don't know why, I just got a super weird vibe from him.

Maybe I missed or am not remembering something but... What about Lane? I thought he was going to get with that one girl, then that just disappeared and he's getting back together with his wife? I'm confused. Did he break up with that girl?

hazey · 10-24-2010, 07:20 PM

^^ Heh, I wouldn’t call myself a Betty enthusiast, that’s too generous. The character irritates me to no end, but I give her a fair chance (like I do with all of them), especially because she’s been *too* villainised, and so rapidly too, with zero redeeming qualities. Each new season the bitch factor went up exponentially, and she could do no right by anyone. How could that be? She obviously wasn’t always like that.

I think the first time Betty started to really bug me was somewhere midway through S2. It was during her half-assed attempt to break the rickety dining room chair, which Don failed to fix after she asked him repeatedly. The children were watching as she kept banging the chair on the floor. Emotionally she was all over the place because in the previous episode Jimmy Barrett had insinuated to her that his wife Bobbie was sleeping with Don, so the dining room tantrum was understandable to a degree. Still, she went about it so horribly immaturely and clumsily, trying to “confront” Don with circumstantial evidence. I’ve always wondered why she never made any work of it, like had Don followed or something. She took him on completely unprepared and made a blistering fool of herself. I hated her inability to pull herself together in that situation.

Which is why her reaction in the S3 episode where she discovers the secret box was such a great pay-off. Don never comes home that evening and Betty gets tired waiting for him with the box, so she eventually just goes to bed and does nothing about it. The long night gives her time to calm down and think about her next move. She doesn’t go berserk or act impulsively. She has the power but doesn’t abuse it. A big smile came across my face when she got up from the kitchen table and returned the box in Don’s desk drawer. However, I do think that on that long night Betty gets wounded to her core never to be healed again. As she’s getting ready for bed, there is something in the way she indifferently knocks down the laundry basket from the bed, and apparently never notices it falling down and spilling on the floor. I was like “uh-oh, the Betty we know is no more”. That night could very well be the moment where the uber-villain Betty of S4 was conceived.

Yeah, it’s strange that Betty’s animosity is directed at Sally alone (Bobby seems to live in a happy-go-lucky world of his own). I’m not so sure it stems from some sort of petty jealousy, that would be thoroughly sad. I’d be surprised if it’s about Sally’s friendship with Glen, considering that Betty is the one who herself initially rejected Glen at a time when he was, let’s face it, her only friend. If she’s jealous and resentful of her daughter it might lie in the fact that Sally is definitely her daddy’s girl (and grandpa’s girl for that matter). The unrestrained, close and friendly relationships Sally has with her father, and has had with Grandpa Gene too (so, with men in general perhaps?) might be what bugs Betty the most. Her collective record of meaningful friendships with men is nonexistent.

@Jasmine: I don’t believe there was anything perverse and sexual in Grandpa Gene’s relationship with both Sally and Betty, the boobie grabbing in S2 was due to his Alzheimer’s. About Lane….he’s a subservient type of person. As one of his PPL superiors said in S3: “One of your strengths is that you always do as you’re told.” It’s sad, though, that even when he’s across the Atlantic and so far away from his father, Lane is still just a little boy under his father’s thumb. The scene where he brings the balloons and a teddy bear to the visitor he expects to be his young son is so telling. I was laughing out loud during it, but only in retrospect realised how sad it actually was.

I'll try to make it shorter next time.

jasmineha · 10-24-2010, 08:08 PM

No, I realized that was from the Alzeimers. But maybe that's why I got such a weird vibe from him, I had completely forgotten that incident.

10-18-2010, 01:30 PM	#1
Joyful Eskimama Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: United States Posts: 1,276	Mad Men (contains spoilers) Even though this season just ended, I thought that it still deserves it's own thread. I have been watching this show non stop for the last month and would love to talk about it. Spoilers below regarding season finale............................................ ............. I have mixed feelings regarding the finale. The Don and Megan engagement was so random that at first I thought it was a dream sequence. Part of me feels duped by the plot line and the other part of me can't stop thinking about it, so overall I guess it was an effective cliffhanger. Don is looking for a mother figure for him and the kids. His life was spiraling out of control and he wanted a home and a safety net to return to. Will he be faithful? No way, but he needed a nurturer to take care of his kids and him, so he chose Megan. Dr. Faye was a much better intellectual match, but he wasn't looking for that. I loved the milk shake spilling in the restaurant, and Don's initial hostile reaction (Betty's would have been the same), but Megan's calm reaction setting the tone and cooling things down. My prediction is that Season 5 starts off with them already married. And I loved Sterling's reaction to the news! I loved the last scene with Peggy and Joan in Joan's office. I was so mad that the engagement stole Peggy's chance in the limelight. I also loved the last scene with Don and Betty in the dark empty kitchen. It was the perfect ending. I wish they had ended it that way anyway. I knew that Joan did not abort the baby. That should make things interesting for next season. Please watch the finale and tell me your thoughts. I am totally obsessed with the show at this point and need to at least talk about it if I can't watch new episodes. How long until season 5? Last edited by Joyful; 10-18-2010 at 03:05 PM.

10-18-2010, 03:29 PM	#2
jasmineha Wide eyed and hopeful.. Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Wyoming, USA Posts: 269	I was a little surprised that there wasn't much business talk, it was pretty Don's personal stuff. I felt so bad for Faye, but I see what you mean Joyful, he doesn't want someone that is his (somewhat) equal. I noticed the milkshake incident too, and thought just what you did about Betty. I'm pretty surprised about this Megan business, I kinda liked Don single... Was Peggy crying????? Crying because Don was engaged, or because it took the spotlight off of her? I thought that Peggy and Don's exchange was great, I love their dynamic. I loved the scene where Peggy went to Joan's office too, a lot of the time Joan seems a little standoffish to Peggy, I thought the female bonding was great. Betty was purposely waiting for Don right?? It's not surprising that she is unhappy, I think she is probably clinically depressed and can't be happy in any situation. Also, Sally's character is getting better. Maybe she just isn't being as bratty anymore. Joan..... I don't even think I have an opinion on it.. All I gotta say is, at least her husband isn't seeming like such an ass anymore. That one scene, (was it last season?) where he practically forced her, and had some sort of anger with all the dr business, made me wonder why she was with him... Whew! Alright, that's it for now. __________________ "That's the nightmare I've been running from..."

10-18-2010, 08:15 PM	#5
mariaoran The girl from Venezuela Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Madrid Posts: 2,118	Well that was one crazy episode. On that clearly highlighted how much Betty and Don are alike. They are both looking for that perfect house, the perfect family, the perfect partner, the perfect feeling that doesn't really exist. Dr. Faye said it right. Don only likes the beginning of things, and that's why he keeps trying to re-invent himself (the new agency, the NYT add, Megan...). He doesn't really know whether he want to be Dick or Don, whether he want an Anna (Dr. Faye) or another Betty (Megan), and obviously ends up with the easy Don Draper choice. Seriously the first thing I thought when he proposed was "this HAS to be a dream" and the second was "He pulled a Roger!" blah. In the words of Season 3 Don Draper to Roger "Nobody thinks you're Happy, they think you are foolish." He's going to regret this move next season I know it. And then there's Betty, she's an awful person seriously. Moving to another neighborhood is just another bratty move because things aren't the way they should be, nothing is perfect boohoo. Its the same thing. It's her trying to re-invent her life into what she thinks it is will make her happy. And what Henry told her about there not being fresh starts was brilliant (and it applies to Don too). That's why she was waiting for Don at the house, Henry is no longer the ideal of a man she thought she married. He is no longer "on her side"—of course no one's on your side, because you are wrong! Ugh, I can't talk about a Betty anymore. And Peggy and Joan gossiping and smoking was THE best scene of the show. But I might be biased by the fact they are my favorites. But really it was nice to see them finally find themselves in a position where they are no longer fighting each other for the power, and instead realizing what they should really be fighting for is themselves as women, and equals. A reflexion of the times of course. Its interesting to see how much Peggy has come since season one, and how much of himself Don sees in her. That scene when Peggy stays in the office and he just looks at her for the approval is priceless. And it also tells me that he has as many reservations about this marriage as Peggy does. He wouldn't need her approval otherwise. Which also makes me even surer that their marriage is not going to be a good one. But hey what do I know. Finally, I want Joan to have a girl so bad. The end. Have to get back to work. __________________ "This place is a Gynocracy!" repetition creates pattern, repetition creates pattern, repetition creates pattern...

10-18-2010, 11:15 PM	#7
hazey Draper's Girl Friday Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,910	Ideally, Don's proposal to Megan would be an act of a character that is neither Don Draper or Dick Whitman, but an act of a person Jon Hamm's character (whoever he is) has evolved into during the course of season 4. Don Draper is a demolished construct that can no longer exist as such. Dick Whitman is a distant memory, a cowardly boy that never got to go onward. Supposedly, S4 has been about this man's journey into something concrete, something tangible, something real. Something better. The man proposing to Megan ought to, therefore, be someone else. Someone new. We hope. Most likely, though, this is Dick Whitman doing his Dick Whitman thing. A man, so profoundly weak and incapable of any kind of change, only ever seeking a mother’s love and care. Thus the never ending fall into his self-perpetuated abyss continues. Although there wasn't really anything she could have said or done, Peggy's reaction to the engagement was so achingly reserved. This is the same man who on that heartbreaking night they spent at the office told her that he has to keep work and private separate, regarding his misstep with Allison. He has to keep work and private separate. What an immense fcking hypocrite. (Excuse the language) "You know, she reminds me of you." What is that supposed to mean? Is Peggy now to comprehend and approve of Don's absurd decision? She should have smacked that Clio award on his stupid head right then and there. The real Don Draper's engagement ring to Anna….that Anna left to Dick….Anna, the paragon of unconditional love and friendship…..the only good and real thing Dick has ever known….he gave that ring to Megan. Words fail to express my absolute discontent with that. And then there's Megan. What’s her story? She played Don like a fiddle, told him what he wanted to hear, did what he wanted her to do. And he fell for it. Falling in love in Disneyland? Over a spilled milkshake? Haha. Is Matt Weiner for real? What's in it for Megan, though? She gets an unpredictable, broken wreck of a man… with children. Good luck, Megan! Favourite moment: Peggy flying into Ken's arms over success at Topaz* --> The same man who unflatteringly referred to her as a "Gertrude Stein type" and compared her to a lobster ("because all the meat is in the tail"), when she gained pregnancy weight. __________________ "We de-whimsified ourselves. Yep, we're normal now."

10-19-2010, 12:37 AM	#8
jasmineha Wide eyed and hopeful.. Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Wyoming, USA Posts: 269	I just re-watched the Don/Peggy scene. Her eyes just look a little glisteny.. (Haha, so not a word, but whatever.) Her throat caught a little before she said "She's very beautiful". Peggy is all flushed when talking to Joan also. __________________ "That's the nightmare I've been running from..."

10-18-2010, 03:29 PM	#3
Dean C Eskimo Regular Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 1,058	I felt like it was a dream sequence too. I guess some days you just wake up and find happiness in what's in front of you. It's probably happened to all of us but with Don we are so used to seeing him be rational, it was about time we saw him act this way. The precursor to this was obviously his outburst in the NY Times

10-18-2010, 07:33 PM	#4
srahman24 Dandy little dreamer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,244	Roger's reaction to the news was my absolute favorite line of the season! And as for everything else, I pretty much agree with everything you guys said. I definitely thought Betty was purposefully waiting for Don. I wonder if she was missing her old life, and if that's been coming for a while or if it was just because they were finally tying up all the loose ends of her old life and it was official that she couldn't have it back whenever she wanted? I thought the engagement was a little strange. After all Don went through in telling Betty and Faye about Dick... now he's back with someone who doesn't really know anything about him and trying for a fresh start? Reminded me a lot of what Henry told Betty about not being able to ever move on, and just having to move forward with all your baggage. Loved the Peggy/Joan scene too! Definitely saw it as a sign of the times, when the pretty gigantic leaps that headstrong, smart women were making were always overshadowed by new marriages...

10-18-2010, 08:34 PM	#6
Joyful Eskimama Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: United States Posts: 1,276	jasmineha- I don't think that Peggy was crying. Was she? I too love the Don/Peggy dynamic. Kind of like a big brother/sister relationship. It's very fun to watch it grow over the seasons. And I agree with your opinion about Betty. She was waiting for him. She is confused and selfish but this is typical to her character. I think that she wants Don back. I also think that they will hook up again next season when they are both married to others. Dean- maybe. But I don't think that the marriage is going to end well. Sharmin and Maria- Joan and Peggy bonding was great to see. I loved it too! Sterling wins in my book for best lines "Did you get cancer?" "Who the hell is that?!?!" and "We need drinks to celebrate, you get the ice" I don't think that Megan is just like Betty. I think that Bethany was though. Megan is more like the perfect maternal figure (in Don's mind anyway). Maybe more like an Anna. But I agree, it won't end well.

10-19-2010, 08:33 AM	#9
cille creepycute Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 15,333	Let me just say thanks for making this thread even though I was a complete idiot in the other thread about the spoilers __________________ Yeah

10-19-2010, 10:18 AM	#10
Joyful Eskimama Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: United States Posts: 1,276	^ I did it for me too. I needed a place to obsess more thoroughly and without restraint

10-19-2010, 02:20 PM	#12
eyeboogers property of cille Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Copenhagen,DK Posts: 38	Matt Weiner Q&A about the season finale http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-4-of-mad-men/

10-19-2010, 02:57 PM	#13
jasmineha Wide eyed and hopeful.. Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Wyoming, USA Posts: 269	I don't completely understand Betty's hatred of Glen.. I remember that he walked in on her in the bathroom and stuff, but crap, he's a little boy. Does anyone else get it? __________________ "That's the nightmare I've been running from..."

10-19-2010, 04:44 PM	#15
Joyful Eskimama Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: United States Posts: 1,276	Inside Tomorrowland: http://www.amctv.com/videos/mad-men/...d=105781979001

10-19-2010, 06:50 PM	#18
hazey Draper's Girl Friday Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,910	About January Jones and the character she plays... Betty is such an easy target, so obviously hateable it's unjust. Not fair to Betty and not fair to the actress that portrays her. A lot of who Betty is now is a direct result of irreparable damage done by Don. Most people seems to ignore that. Season 1 Betty is an entirely different person. She is anxious, yes, but she is also kind, loving and docile. It physically hurts to watch Betty and Don in season 1 from where we are now in the series. In the episode where she gets a part-time modeling gig for Coca Cola and is unable to be at home every day and make dinner for her family, she apologises for whipping up some leftovers, to which Don says that she's the greatest mother the children could ever ask for. It's a blow to the head every time I watch it again. Whenever the writers allow the role of Betty to be something else besides a mother and a housewife, Januray Jones is quite good actually. Season 3 was Betty's season in that respect. She is great in the Rome episode. Her closing line of dialogue from that episode is so spot-on and jarring, one of my favourite endings on MM. And she was downright perfect when she finally confronted Don with that box of documents and photographs. Also, in this finale when she bows her head down and can't look Don in the eyes to say congratulations. She was fighting tears so terribly hard, I kept whispering "just hang in there, girl". Loved her when she rushed to the toilet all utterly distraught and shaking upon seeing Don with Bethany at the restaurant. She dropped her purse, couldn't even light a cigarette. It is truly sad that Betty can't see the error of her ways and has turned into the one person she's feared the most throughout her childhood: her own mother. Earlier this season I was struck by the similarity of these two shots, which in a way confirmed what I had always suspected: Viola had to have been the one who's raised Betty and William, the same way that Carla is raising Sally and Bobby. __________________ "We de-whimsified ourselves. Yep, we're normal now."

10-21-2010, 09:04 AM	#24
Daniel Eskimo Regular Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: A Kerryman in Cork Posts: 5,202	being careful not to read any of the above, only stated watching this 3 days ago. Only one more episode of Season 1 to go - I'm way behind. I like it. __________________ I've been waiting my whole life waiting for you

10-21-2010, 12:58 PM	#25
Joyful Eskimama Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: United States Posts: 1,276	^ I was way behind too. I watched all 4 seasons in a month.

10-21-2010, 09:42 PM	#26
hazey Draper's Girl Friday Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,910	Mad Men newcomers, no worries about catching up, the seasons are fairly short. Besides, I think many a MM fan would trade places with you in an instant. How exciting it is to be new to it all. Season 1.... crikey, I was there three years ago, completely unaware of what was yet to come. I think I'll give S4 a second go soon. Not just the individual episodes because I tend to do that a lot, but try to watch the whole thing back to back in maybe two days time. A lot has happened and some of it didn't really ring true. It'd be cool if this thread didn't die away in the absence of brand new episodes, July 2011 seems so far away :-( We could discuss favourite and memorable moments, scenes, characters, endings, etc. __________________ "We de-whimsified ourselves. Yep, we're normal now."

10-24-2010, 01:35 AM	#28
jasmineha Wide eyed and hopeful.. Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Wyoming, USA Posts: 269	What did yall think of Betty's dad? When he showed up, then was going to live with them, for some reason I thought he was going to molest Sally. I thought maybe he had molested Betty. I don't know why, I just got a super weird vibe from him. Maybe I missed or am not remembering something but... What about Lane? I thought he was going to get with that one girl, then that just disappeared and he's getting back together with his wife? I'm confused. Did he break up with that girl? __________________ "That's the nightmare I've been running from..." Last edited by jasmineha; 10-24-2010 at 01:39 AM.

10-24-2010, 07:20 PM	#29
hazey Draper's Girl Friday Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,910	^^ Heh, I wouldn’t call myself a Betty enthusiast, that’s too generous. The character irritates me to no end, but I give her a fair chance (like I do with all of them), especially because she’s been too villainised, and so rapidly too, with zero redeeming qualities. Each new season the bitch factor went up exponentially, and she could do no right by anyone. How could that be? She obviously wasn’t always like that. I think the first time Betty started to really bug me was somewhere midway through S2. It was during her half-assed attempt to break the rickety dining room chair, which Don failed to fix after she asked him repeatedly. The children were watching as she kept banging the chair on the floor. Emotionally she was all over the place because in the previous episode Jimmy Barrett had insinuated to her that his wife Bobbie was sleeping with Don, so the dining room tantrum was understandable to a degree. Still, she went about it so horribly immaturely and clumsily, trying to “confront” Don with circumstantial evidence. I’ve always wondered why she never made any work of it, like had Don followed or something. She took him on completely unprepared and made a blistering fool of herself. I hated her inability to pull herself together in that situation. Which is why her reaction in the S3 episode where she discovers the secret box was such a great pay-off. Don never comes home that evening and Betty gets tired waiting for him with the box, so she eventually just goes to bed and does nothing about it. The long night gives her time to calm down and think about her next move. She doesn’t go berserk or act impulsively. She has the power but doesn’t abuse it. A big smile came across my face when she got up from the kitchen table and returned the box in Don’s desk drawer. However, I do think that on that long night Betty gets wounded to her core never to be healed again. As she’s getting ready for bed, there is something in the way she indifferently knocks down the laundry basket from the bed, and apparently never notices it falling down and spilling on the floor. I was like “uh-oh, the Betty we know is no more”. That night could very well be the moment where the uber-villain Betty of S4 was conceived. Yeah, it’s strange that Betty’s animosity is directed at Sally alone (Bobby seems to live in a happy-go-lucky world of his own). I’m not so sure it stems from some sort of petty jealousy, that would be thoroughly sad. I’d be surprised if it’s about Sally’s friendship with Glen, considering that Betty is the one who herself initially rejected Glen at a time when he was, let’s face it, her only friend. If she’s jealous and resentful of her daughter it might lie in the fact that Sally is definitely her daddy’s girl (and grandpa’s girl for that matter). The unrestrained, close and friendly relationships Sally has with her father, and has had with Grandpa Gene too (so, with men in general perhaps?) might be what bugs Betty the most. Her collective record of meaningful friendships with men is nonexistent. @Jasmine: I don’t believe there was anything perverse and sexual in Grandpa Gene’s relationship with both Sally and Betty, the boobie grabbing in S2 was due to his Alzheimer’s. About Lane….he’s a subservient type of person. As one of his PPL superiors said in S3: “One of your strengths is that you always do as you’re told.” It’s sad, though, that even when he’s across the Atlantic and so far away from his father, Lane is still just a little boy under his father’s thumb. The scene where he brings the balloons and a teddy bear to the visitor he expects to be his young son is so telling. I was laughing out loud during it, but only in retrospect realised how sad it actually was. I'll try to make it shorter next time. __________________ "We de-whimsified ourselves. Yep, we're normal now."

10-24-2010, 08:08 PM	#30
jasmineha Wide eyed and hopeful.. Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Wyoming, USA Posts: 269	No, I realized that was from the Alzeimers. But maybe that's why I got such a weird vibe from him, I had completely forgotten that incident. __________________ "That's the nightmare I've been running from..."