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Old 08-15-2003, 07:06 PM   #1
cmgork
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Just came across Damien and was wondering if he has a taping policy? Also, does anyone have of Damien live shows?


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Old 08-15-2003, 07:50 PM   #2
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Unfortunately it's a very messed up policy as management in Ireland for most bands seem to be very close-minded about taping and see it as potential for piracy rather than promoting the artist.

Damien's management aren't too keen on taping, though don't go out of their way to stop it (but won't provide soundboard feeds either). Damien himself is fine with it though.
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Old 08-15-2003, 10:05 PM   #3
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Hi Craig...I brought up this subject at the damien's website and the response via emailfrom managementwas they don't either encourage or discourage it... I actually got turned onto Damien incidentally from someone putting some live Damien stuff on a filler from a DAT trade. Go figure.. If you poke around on this web site you can find some .shn's to download I believe since I don't have a link for it.


I plan on tapinga couple of theU.S. shows stealth(especially considering a couple of the venues are notorious for anti-taping)and if the showshappen to come out ok, I'll start a tape tree for one of the shows.


Cheers
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Old 08-15-2003, 10:22 PM   #4
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And I forgot my rant.. Personally, my opinion is if theyhad an opentaping policylike a lot of theother artist(many jambands yes)we wouldn't have cheesy people on ebay selling their *FREE* complimentary Damo Union Chapel gig for more than the price of "O".. Lame don't you think?!?!
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Old 08-16-2003, 05:40 AM   #5
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<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Funky Avocado on 16August2003
<HR>



If you poke around on this web site you can find some .shn's to download I believe since I don't have a link for it.



<HR>



.shn's? am where?</BLOCKQUOTE>
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Old 08-16-2003, 03:01 PM   #6
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Found it..


http://www.freecfm.com/d/damien/foru...osition=3
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Old 08-16-2003, 05:01 PM   #7
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I actually don't like how the circulation of the extra 'free' Damien stuff works. I've found it rediculously hard to get hold of the DVD. Management were no help whatsoever, though I evenoffered to pay. I've a feeling I'll have no legitimate way of getting the Union Chapel promo either.
I've found that when other artists release rare promo's etc, though they'll still have limited circulation, if I put in a bit of effort I can usually still get one.
So it's just frustrating more than anything.

As far as taping goes, I know (and I'm sure many of you do) plenty of bands who are only where they're at today because of very open taping policies on their show. I find as long as some ground rules are set down, it works to the advantage of both the fans and the artist.
Not only does it mean messing up taping of bands here, but there's that rediculous thing where we can't post new songs (that may have been aired on radio, and so available to the public) until they're commercially available. Damien and The Frames are both guilty of this.
I can understand their fear, but(once again) from my experience with other bands, hearing a rough live version of a new song only adds to my anticipation for hearing the studio recording on a new album. The majority of people are hardly going to think 'Oh I've heard it now so why buy the album?'. I'm almost tempted to do a proper case study of this and present it to both Damien and The Frames management
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Old 08-16-2003, 09:16 PM   #8
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<BLOCKQUOTE>


Originally posted by Scon on 16August2003
<HR>
Not only does it mean messing up taping of bands here, but there's that rediculous thing where we can't post new songs (that may have been aired on radio, and so available to the public) until they're commercially available. Damien and The Frames are both guilty of this.
<HR>



I no longer remember the details, but at least in the Frames' case that actually has to do with the fact that Claire found out only recently that there is some obscure law that she wasn't aware of before. I forgot the details, but she explained on the board a while ago and it made sense to me.</BLOCKQUOTE>
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Old 08-17-2003, 06:34 AM   #9
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I remember her saying that. But for some reason I'm suspicious, it doesn't make sense and I know plenty of bands who are ok with recordings being available before the album. Does the 'law' not apply to them somehow?Especially with the Frames now, because they have finally taken charge of their newer songs, as opposed to having no control over their previous albums licenses.
Claire's lovely though, so I'm afraid to bring this up with her incase I sound nasty dc;
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Old 08-17-2003, 08:33 AM   #10
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It may be something to do with Copyright... if it is 'released' by someone recording it before they officially release it then there may be an issue of claiming copyright on it... so the act could lose the right to the song, which none of us want.


This would mean that the wouldn't get paid when it was played on radio... anyone could put it on compilations for free... etc etc.


So the artists we all love would have no claim over their art... They have no problem with recordingsoncethe songs arereleased and the legal loop-holes are closed up. I think they're being perfectly fair and reasonable.
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Old 08-17-2003, 08:51 AM   #11
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That's similar to what Claire said, yes. But it just doesn't sound right to me. Using Dave Matthews Band as an example, they were the biggest audience drawer last year for a band on tour. All their sets are heavily taped, and as soon as any new song is played live or on radio it is instantly, and widely, available for download on the net because of their large live recording fanbase (sometimes years before a studio recording is made available commercially.)
The only way it could make sense to me is if it was some peculiarity in the Irish law. I'm really curious about it.
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Old 08-17-2003, 11:28 AM   #12
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Ah, now that you say that....somebody brougt that up on thre Frames board last week, the fact that some songs were now played on the radio and how that effected the situation Claire had mentioned.
But Claire had just come back from vacation and (I think) even briefly went away elsewhere (Lisburn?) and it was understood folks wait until she cleared the situation up.
If the board wouldn't scroll the way it does we could check what she said, but it's now buried on page 88 <img border="0" src= "http://www.freecfm.com/d/damien/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif">You could raise that issue yourself next week, of course!
There's a new thing they are trying out in te US now (I emailed that to Claire) where a big venue owner creates bootlegs on the spot right at the end of the gig. Takes 5 minutes and you can take it home. So far it seems very popular with patrons *and* artists. Artists get 50% and you get a decent soundboard recording.
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Old 08-17-2003, 01:08 PM   #13
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That's a good idea... that way the artist can claim copyright too.
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Old 08-17-2003, 03:45 PM   #14
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That is true, but there's a very easy remedy. All they have to do is register their music before they play it.


Dave Matthews has his own publishing company, Colden Gray, and so before he plays a song live, he registers it.

If they play a song first, regardless of whether its taped, just someone in the audience can remember the lyrics and chord structure and go register it themselves and create issues, so its really just laziness and a copout to prohibit taping for that reason.
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Old 08-17-2003, 04:30 PM   #15
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That makes sense. I cant see, with the bootleg side of the industry the way it is at the moment,why all artists dont register their songs before they play them anywhere. Its so easy forrecordings to be made and passed all over the world via the net. It's one of those things that happends in all competitive industries. If you come out with something new, make sure you've registered it first.
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Old 08-19-2003, 12:09 AM   #16
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When is the last time you heard of some poor bastard going to a concert, record some artist with a couple of mics, go home and claim rights to the uncopyrighted song and make millions? The average joe out there is recording a band for the love of it and most likely spread it onto others. Sure you have the occasional schmuck who tries to make a buck or two off someone else's gain but..It seemsmorethe artist(Bob Dylan, Bruce Springstein, etc..)tries to control it by an anti-taping stance, the higher the demand becomes for illegal sales of bootlegs.. Economics 101..I like the idea about providing a live cd of the show youattended but I guess while I love the clear crispness of a sbd feed, there is something to be said about a warm audience recording that truly captures the energy of the show, even the occasional obnoxious drunk singing off key to every tune..Ok, not that, but....
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Old 08-19-2003, 12:11 AM   #17
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i'm the taper on what has seemed to have become the most circulated damo show. basically it goes like this. there are two managers. one that seems to be on the label side i believe and one on strictly management side. ben (mgmt) said they neither support or frown on it so it is fine, just no commercial use i.e. selling of anything. fiona (label i think) said no recording AT ALL. i talked to her and told her what ben said and she said she's changing and going along with ben on this one. damien said he does not care. soundboards are not allowed. audience taping is if the venue allows it. the end. if the venue does not allow it you will not get any help from damien's management or road crew so good luck stealthing. if anyone has any questions let me know. i most likely will be recording damien (and opener charlotte martin) come october here in los angeles.
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Old 08-19-2003, 04:56 AM   #18
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Funky A, I'm not suggesting that someone will go off and claim the copyright... I don't believe legally they can... but if the artist doesn't claim it before it is 'made public' then there could be some legal case saying that they cannot claim it later... meaning free for anyone.


I'm not 100% on copyright law, but that is how most Intellectual Property Rights would work.


I agree that concert recordings only add to an artists fan-base and I think the idea Angela put forward sounds like a good solution for everyone.
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Old 08-19-2003, 03:02 PM   #19
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Isn't Fiona Damien's sister? Some close relation anyway, so I'm guessing she'd be more protective of his music and see taping as a threat. That's quite a loose guess though (c;

As far as having your own publishing company, I was sure that Damien released O entirely himself in Ireland, setting up his own label and he has full copyright of the songs. Surely he'd have as much control over copyrighting them as Dave Matthews Band then, or is it laziness again? Someone can correct me on this because I'm not 100% on the situation of Damien's label in Ireland (I know he signed to another in the US).

The thing with strict policies on taping is that the recordings seem to generally be worse. I've found the more it's encouraged, the more some people go to an effort of getting a decent rig together and recording properly. Other than that it's just people with some crap mic they found around their house plugged into a minidisc without a preamp in their pocket. 90% of the Damien shows out there arepretty badquality.

A lot of the points raised here are really good one's that I've tried to bring up in the past. Overall I'm hoping managements will actually see taping as a postive thing if they approach it the right way. So many artists out their (mainly in the US)have won over half their audience through them hearing a (legit.) bootleg. I've gotten into many bands and bought their albums only after hearing some bootlegs, to appreciate how good they are live.
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Old 08-19-2003, 03:07 PM   #20
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I'm not actually very keen on the idea of the venue making recordings for sale. It's just not the same and doesn't get the same participation from the fans. It just looses some of the live trading appeal for me. Also, I don't like the idea of bringing money into it. Sure, the artist needs to profit.... but that's not encouraging the spirit of live trading very much. I do encourage them, however,to release live albums every so often and I'm happy to buy them.
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Old 08-20-2003, 11:38 AM   #21
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This is a test
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Old 08-21-2003, 01:23 AM   #22
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i know some venues do sell the recordings, but it's usually not well known when they do and the venue keeps 100% of the proceeds. i know a few places like this down in san diego. anyhow, my rig isn't near that of some dmb tapers but is a decent one and cost around $600-$700. most good dmb tapers rigs are up closer to the $7000-8000 mark from what i've seen.
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Old 08-24-2003, 12:05 AM   #23
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I agree Scon. I also can't help but think from a legal perspective what the contract between the artist and label is when a venue tries to sell a live show for profit..Sounds real messy to me but I know diddly squat on the legalities so I can't really comment too much on this.... Saw someone recently post on damo's site a FTP of shows to host for download. I never got the address but sounds like a grande idea to me and maybe someone can post it?..Let's just hope some great sounding shows come out of this next tour Sounds like a fun one! Cheers
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Old 08-24-2003, 09:27 AM   #24
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In the US Clear Channel is pilot testing the idea of selling "bootlegs" right after the show. I think they own just about every venue in the US.

But then I read in a recent article that individual artists (David Gray it was, I think) have been doing it for a while.
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Old 08-24-2003, 02:11 PM   #25
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I like the idea of being able to buy a bootleg of the show you've just been to. Think that should be more common.
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Old 08-24-2003, 02:18 PM   #26
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clear channel are the anti christ make no mistake. they own the world[img]smileys/smiley1.gif[/img]
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Old 08-24-2003, 06:28 PM   #27
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Yeah, I know. That's why I was actually surprised artists liked the arrangement. Maybe the newspaper that carried that article was owned by CC also [img]smileys/smiley5.gif[/img]
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Old 08-24-2003, 11:42 PM   #28
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basically when it comes down to it if your an artist and you want to play a gig you have to go through cc sooner or later . thats not right now is it. I work as a freelance stagehand and the amount of venues is dwindling down to almost nothing until i just accept the cc pay roll.
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Old 08-25-2003, 01:11 AM   #29
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Even worse, they own almost every radio station. Talk about brain washing. Needless to say they further a conservative agenda. [img]smileys/smiley34.gif[/img]
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Old 08-25-2003, 10:53 PM   #30
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That's terrible except I can't remember the last time I actually listened to the radio, well, except for NPR and a couple of college radio operates. My beef is they now are sleeping with Ticketbastard as I get Clear Channel spam email after buying a ticket online from Ticketbastard, Damo no less. Radio Kaos baby..
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