Industry Rumor: Damien Has Complete Album, Won't Agree to Terms to Release It

[mario_d]

I do not know this first or second hand. However, it is from someone I trust enough to repeat.

The stoy is that Damien has a completed album which he wants to release, and shopped it to record labels within the last year. However, no record label would agree to release it under the terms he stipulated.

I do not know what these terms are. But for perspective, when he released O, the terms of his contract with Vector were that while touring, he only had to do one press interview per week.

I suspect it is more that sort of a term than not reaching agreement on a split of proceeds.

Make of this what you will.

[carrroline]

Sounds about right...

And as much as I want to see another album soon, I really do respect the man for choosing this path.

[mario_d]

What path would that be?

[carrroline]

Not selling his soul in order to release an album.

[glo32]

This is something I will never understand: does he have his own label OR NOT?
I thought he had his own label (Heffa / DRM) but then sometimes we talk about problems he has with the label. Who is the label then?

Last time I checked, years and years ago, he released his cd's under his own label, and then had a distribution deal with Vector and Warner. Is it them we're talking about here? And in this case, does he really need distribution from them anymore? I think he has the money and the fans to really do his own stuff now and distribute it however he wants. Fans will buy it, tv series will use it, people will always go to see him live.
My fear, at this point, is that he has an exclusive contract with Warner or something like that...? And if that's true, how can a man that hates labels (at the point to quit his own band and go hide in Tuscany for months) sign an exclusive contract with a label that can force him to do something he doesn't want to do? Didn't he found his own label to avoid all that?

[carrroline]

As usual I regret posting on an emotional impuls yesterday, without thinking things through.
Keep in mind:
- I don't know Damien
- I don't know his situation
- I tend to over analyse things

This just sounded so much like other things I've read or seen before. Maybe a little too much. So maybe this is just someone's theory to explain why there's still no official release date. Maybe not.

As for the label issue... He did release 'O' on his own label in Europe, but in the US he signed with a record company. I've read somewhere (probably here) that he owed that label a couple of records. Again, i don't know if that's true.

[mattministrator]

Thanks for sharing, Mario! I wouldn't be surprised (but happy!) if Damien chose to release the album in an unusual fashion (think Radiohead's In Rainbow model). For me, the off-the-shelf industry way of going about a new album doesn't really fit his approach to music or the path he has chosen over the last years. Here's hope Winterthur will shed some light on the current situation, though I'd be (pleasantly!) surprised to get an actual date out of him.

[mario_d]

Originally Posted by mattministrator

Thanks for sharing, Mario! I wouldn't be surprised (but happy!) if Damien chose to release the album in an unusual fashion (think Radiohead's In Rainbow model). For me, the off-the-shelf industry way of going about a new album doesn't really fit his approach to music or the path he has chosen over the last years. Here's hope Winterthur will shed some light on the current situation, though I'd be (pleasantly!) surprised to get an actual date out of him.

Damien will need a record label's promotion to release another album, unfortunately. Even if he hadn't spent six years out of the business, he never had a large enough fanbase to do a donation based download release like Radiohead did.

Let alone, he will need a promotion machine in order to tour again, or he'll be playing mostly empty theaters.

The only two ways this plays out is he finally agrees to do things he doesn't want to do in order to get paid (like all the rest of us do) or he continues his self-imposed musical exile.

He's burned a lot of professional bridges in the last twelve years. From fellow musicians to record labels to radio stations and on. (I think we all know enough of those stories to extrapolate that there are even more of those stories we never heard.) He's going to need to build new ones or mend those relationships before he will ever be able to return to where he was from 2003-2007.

[verenita]

Originally Posted by mario_d

He's going to need to build new ones or mend those relationships before he will ever be able to return to where he was from 2003-2007.

in fairness, whatever happens or he "might need", i don´t think he would like to return to where he was from 2003-2007. but it´s just my humble opinion. i do hope he gets the record release though, for all the work that has been done so far... for the little man himself and for us, of course.

[carrroline]

Originally Posted by verenita

in fairness, whatever happens or he "might need", i don´t think he would like to return to where he was from 2003-2007. but it´s just my humble opinion. i do hope he gets the record release though, for all the work that has been done so far... for the little man himself and for us, of course.

You always know the perfect thing to say, without passing judgement. I like that

[mario_d]

I think you are very mistaken. I don't think Damien will be touring little clubs by himself or as a duo like he did in Spring 2003. He'll want a full band and the modest level of comfort he had from 2004 to 2007, or he won't be touring. And no record company is going to release an album if he won't tour. And an album will need the promotion of a record label in order to be profitable because he has been away for seven years now.

Which is why I said earlier

The only two ways this plays out is he finally agrees to do things he doesn't want to do in order to get paid (like all the rest of us do) or he continues his self-imposed musical exile.

[carrroline]

Let me just quote Dylan Moran, and then I'll shut up, I promise.

“People will kill you. Over time. They will shave out every last morsel of fun in you with little, harmless sounding phrases that people use every day, like: 'Be realistic!'"

- Dylan Moran

(Or "like the rest of us do")

[mario_d]

I don't think you have a proper perspective on exactly how poorly Damien has behaved over the last fifteen years. Go read about how he signed a record contract with Juniper, then walked out on them. How he released 9 out of spite because the rest of the band actually wanted to continue their career in music and get a paycheck again, so he just let everyone around him pick a track (including the record label) and that's how he selected the songs on the album. How he fired Lisa after the soundcheck at a show in Germany and she doesn't speak to him anymore. And that's just the things he's publicly acknowledged himself.

So let me just quote Damien himself :

“I mean, I’m pretty clear at this point, looking back, I was a complete asshole on many occasions. Like, very clear”.

[mattministrator]

I think you're making a good point with Damien having burned a good number of bridges in the past and potentially facing difficulty finding his way back into the business. What I don't consider necessarily true is your assumption that he'd want a full band and fanfares to go tour at all. What is more, I can also picture some label taking him on even without attaching the usual promotional hoops to it. And lastly, I have no insight into Damien's financial situation, but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that making money and the album being profitable aren't top on his list if priorities, though this might be naive and wishful thinking on my part.

[glo32]

He might have been burning bridges but we're not talking about small clubs here. All these years he has toured, solo, filling 2000-people venues (or maybe more) and he's always singing the same old songs.
Plus, the music industry has changed a lot since the 9 era. Now you don't necessarily need to promote a record like you used to. You now follow the artist on Facebook and Twitter, you get notifications on new releases on Spotify, you see his new videos on the Youtube homepage. I mean, even if you don't promote an album, people will know about the new album. He has burned bridges with the music industry, the label, maybe the press, but all the people that liked his music 10 years ago still like it now.
He is stil selling out large venues, and people can't wait to see him again. In Italy we had Damien's gigs for like 4 nights in a row a couple of years ago. They were all sold out, with people travelling to see him. They were all 2000-seat venues, and he's still playing Delicate and Cannonball.
I'm not sure about the US but he sold out all his latest gigs in Europe, Korea, South America.
I really don't see the problem in releasing an album of new songs now, without a major label promoting it. He does have a big fanbase and today that fabase can easily grow fast thanks to the internet. I really don't get why he can't play with a full band to huge audiences.

[mario_d]

Originally Posted by mattministrator

I think you're making a good point with Damien having burned a good number of bridges in the past and potentially facing difficulty finding his way back into the business. What I don't consider necessarily true is your assumption that he'd want a full band and fanfares to go tour at all. What is more, I can also picture some label taking him on even without attaching the usual promotional hoops to it. And lastly, I have no insight into Damien's financial situation, but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that making money and the album being profitable aren't top on his list if priorities, though this might be naive and wishful thinking on my part.

Just to clarify, he won't have that much difficulty getting back into the business, he's having difficulty getting back in on his own eccentric terms.

There is literally nothing to suggest he wouldn't want a band. He has literally never embarked on a single tour without a partial or full band backing him. The very smallest shows he ever played in the US, before O was released here, he toured with Tomo and Joel and had Lisa at some of them.

There is absolutely no label who will sign him without him having to do standard promotion. His album will sell like **** if its not promoted. And more than one bridge that he's burned were with radio stations, so its an uphill battle to promote it.

He's had an album done for months if not years. At any time he wanted, he could've posted it as flac or mp3 or just even streamed it on damienrice.com if he didn't intend to make money on it. Instead, he's working on finding a record label to release it. So it's not realistic to think he doesn't want to profit from the album release.

Originally Posted by glo32

He might have been burning bridges but we're not talking about small clubs here. All these years he has toured, solo, filling 2000-people venues (or maybe more) and he's always singing the same old songs.

Damien has not toured since the concert industry went bellyup in 2008. And he has never toured solo, so not sure what you're saying there. Also, he played three O tours and two 9 tours. He wasn't playing the same old songs over and over.

Originally Posted by glo32

Plus, the music industry has changed a lot since the 9 era. Now you don't necessarily need to promote a record like you used to. You now follow the artist on Facebook and Twitter, you get notifications on new releases on Spotify, you see his new videos on the Youtube homepage.

First off, Damien has a whopping 89,000 twitter followers. If every one of them buys the album, that ain't enough to break even.

Second, I don't know what a Youtube homepage even is, but all the things you are talking about are only self-selective audiences. He doesn't need to do any promotion at all get to his facebook followers to mostly buy the album. Promotion is about getting people who wouldn't otherwise buy the album to become aware of and buy the record. And that requires radio play and press and advertising.

Originally Posted by glo32

I mean, even if you don't promote an album, people will know about the new album.

Very few people, not enough to be a profitable album.

Originally Posted by glo32

He has burned bridges with the music industry, the label, maybe the press, but all the people that liked his music 10 years ago still like it now.

Absolutely not. Most people don't listen to the same music they listened to ten years ago. Musical tastes develop and trends change.

Originally Posted by glo32

He is stil selling out large venues, and people can't wait to see him again. In Italy we had Damien's gigs for like 4 nights in a row a couple of years ago. They were all sold out, with people travelling to see him. They were all 2000-seat venues, and he's still playing Delicate and Cannonball.
I'm not sure about the US but he sold out all his latest gigs in Europe, Korea, South America.

You're talking about playing three concerts a year for the last seven years. That's not an indicator of how tickets for an actual tour will sell. You're basically saying that there were less than 8,000 people in Italy who wanted to see him (2,000 x 4 nights minus people who attend multiple shows) so of course he could sustain a proper album promotion tour. That's just not correct analysis.

He hasn't played an actual ticketed concert in the US since 2007.

Originally Posted by glo32

I really don't see the problem in releasing an album of new songs now, without a major label promoting it. He does have a big fanbase and today that fabase can easily grow fast thanks to the internet. I really don't get why he can't play with a full band to huge audiences.

Well, for starters, as I said to Matt above, Damien does see a problem with that, or else he wouldn't be sitting on the album he was trying to get a label to release for him earlier this year and he would've already released it for free or on his own or whatever.

Second, he could play with a full band to his 2006 size audiences this winter if he does some promotion. He won't be able to do that by not doing press and radio station interviews and promotional performances. Even in 2006 he had to do radio appearances and open for Fiona Apple for awhile in order to get new ears to hear his music and I don't believe all of those 2006 and 2007 shows were sold out.

[verenita]

Originally Posted by carrroline

You always know the perfect thing to say, without passing judgement. I like that

thanks a mill! it really means a lot to me... i can be very hard on myself sometimes and i just had one of those weeks.

as for the agreement, i´m trying to get your point, mario... and i know you are right at certain things needed to realease an album (and all that it comes after), but i, personally, definitely can´t not compare in my mind this time, whatever it´s happening between him and the label records or promoters or radio station managers, to that time back in 2003-2007. i do believe that are not comparable things. but, what would i know about music industry/business? not a f***ing single thing.

the little man knows how to do kind of everything by himself, he did it in the first place, didn´t he? maybe it´s just a matter of having a contract already signed and not being able of ridding of it.

[mario_d]

Originally Posted by verenita

the little man knows how to do kind of everything by himself, he did it in the first place, didn´t he?

He does? Because I'd say he did a pretty terrible job of it in the first place. And, again, he himself says

“I mean, I’m pretty clear at this point, looking back, I was a complete asshole on many occasions. Like, very clear”.

[cactus360]

Hello everybody!

Great thread!

I am not sure that Damien Rice has a lot of fans today(a lot of eskimos left the igloo since 2007) and I am not sure that he will sell a lot of his next CD....It makes a long time now....too much time!

Today to release a CD(or Itunes/mp3) is not a good way to make money for labels, and touring a lot is the last way to have a "decent life" for the band/singer!Ok Damien Rice doesn't want to have a "rich life", but people who will produce his music will think about it!Unfortunately music industry changed a lot....everybody can make music with internet!

But I enjoy to hear something new one day!I am not impatient....not sure it will be this year!But the fact that he didn't sing new songs in Winterthur is maybe a proof of his problems with this new release!

[ElephantMan]

at some point in time , it will be released...Damien will need the money...not saying he will sell out, but make a compromise or 2.....Mario-d is spot on, Damien does NOT have the fanbase to release it without a label...his 20yr old fans have moved on and are lawyers and Docters with 2-3 kids lol ...he needs to get the 20 yr olds that were 10 back then

[verenita]

Originally Posted by mario_d

He does? Because I'd say he did a pretty terrible job of it in the first place. And, again, he himself says

i meant during the O era, but i still get your point and, again, i´m clueless about the process of releasing an album.

as for him being an a**hole, i don´t think he referred to the business people, but maybe it´s just me.

[carrroline]

In my experience, it usually are the ones that never admit that they have behaved like a prick that are the real a-holes…

[carrroline]

This sure looks like a very silly thread now.
(Sorry I just couldn't resist )

[mario_d]

Originally Posted by carrroline

This sure looks like a very silly thread now.
(Sorry I just couldn't resist )

This sure looks like a very silly post.

He was shopping a completed album in the beginning of the year and won't release it until November. That tells you there was an extremely long dead period of time, and he missed out on the summer concert season.

Warner bros is clearly promoting the heck out of it already, and selling $65 versions of it.

The only silliness I see here is people who think Damien was holding things up due to "integrity" or that he would release it without major label support.

[carrroline]

Well, I'd rather be silly than bitter, Mario.

[RenataAQP]

I agree with Carroline, lighten up Mario! just be excited like all of us that the new album is finally out this year

[mario_d]

I'd rather be bitter and correct than petty and wrong.

[carrroline]

Then you should work on that.
Seriously, can we stop this?

[mario_d]

Since you're the one who needed to pettily respond to this topic after two weeks of silence and make obvious what had previously only be the subtext of you being wrong, I don't know, can you stop posting and removing all doubt?

[carrroline]

Okay, since you insist...
I never meant that to sound petty at all. I'm sorry if you thought it was.

The 'this sure looks silly now' comment was meant to illustrate the relief that we finaly have an official release date. So all of this previous speculation (mine as well as yours) doesn't matter anymore. Whatever he did or didn't do, the album is coming, and that's excellent news. We should celebrate.