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Old 09-29-2003, 11:26 PM   #31
Angela
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario
Alright, here's the deal, maybe I came off stronger than I intended and faded from the point.
Y'all want/need/etc. to use MP3s, fine. However:

1) Don't expect everything in MP3. And don't convert things to MP3 that are specifically not to be recorded to MP3.

2) Tapers want to encode to MP3, fine, but PLEASE put out a lossless version too.

3) Tapers PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make an info file. Its very easy, very standard format, and makes a huge difference for the rest of us.
That sounds good to me. I have one suggestion. I have noticed on the, eh..."other" ftp that even people who are serious about music often have never heard of the SHN format.

Maybe you can put a text file or HTML file into the server home directory that links to SHN encoders for all operating systems? I'm sure if people know they don't have to research the issues they should be more inclined to use it.

I know I looked into it only two weeks ago and couldn't be bothered trying to find the right software. Finally found something ridiculously easy to use 2 days ago, but I have a comp sci degree.
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Old 09-29-2003, 11:32 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grovesa16
My offer of money was mainly to compensate the person who spent the money on the equipment and time and effort into putting something like that together. It has nothing to do with "putting a price on art".
grovesa16,

it's not about putting a price on art. It's to avoid people profit without the artists getting royalties for their efforts. That's why "bootlegs" are always free. Once people start charging money for it, it is not only illegal, but also artists will soon enough no longer support taping.

You should always get a life recording for FREE. In your case it's probably best you just ask who's willing to send you one and offer to reimburse for postage, envelope & CD-R.

Damien will never see a penny of those "top dollar" offered. [img]smileys/smiley5.gif[/img]
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Old 09-29-2003, 11:54 PM   #33
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Yes, I know that artists never see a penny from bootlegs. I get into discussions on the internet and music distribution with my boss all the time. It has always been my belief that even though the artist might not see money from a bootleg or a downloaded track, it will still drive buzz, hype and sales. But I think that is another discussion for another day.
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Old 09-30-2003, 01:26 AM   #34
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I can understand obviously wanting something to remember the gig by, I just don't agree by what means you are willing to get it. I think it's a piss poor reason to say, "Who wants to wait? We live in a world of instant gratification". Thanks for helping reaffirm my lack of faith in labels.

"It has always been my belief that even though the artist might not see money from a bootleg or a downloaded track, it will still drive buzz, hype and sales."
Let this serve as a warning. Remember people who they are working for..It's certainly not the artist..For some reason cannonbal remix keeps popping up in my head..Wonder why...
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Old 09-30-2003, 10:01 AM   #35
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You are obviously missing my point, but we'll just agree to disagree and leave it at that. There was a time in college when I was pro label but not anymore. I'm about as pro artist as they come, which is why I love to spread the word about Damien. I know some people at Vector and are so happy they are doing what they are doing.

Once again, I am sorry if I offended with my offer to pay for a copy of the show. I just feel like whomever puts the effort into actually taping the show and even putting some artwork together deserves some compensation. I've already compensated the artist by purchasing a ticket. And I feel that going through the means to tape a show is an art in itself. But I obviously have no idea what goes on in the community, so we'll just leave it at that.
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Old 09-30-2003, 10:57 AM   #36
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Wahey - missed this one....

Anyway, i really think a lot of people here have made valid points about the whole trade issue. Like somebody said, it's not that the tapers and traders in Ireland are behind the times, its the infrastructure that supports it that's severely lacking. Sure, I'd have been able to set up an FTP long ago with plenty of shns on it, but to be honest, there'd only have been about six people in the whole country with the bandwidth to do anything with it.

The Ricer sharing community in Ireland very much sprung up from those sweet days when audiogalaxy was alive. The same goes for the Frames. That's why a lot of the early shows, when Damien was still pretty much unheard of, really exist only in the main public domain as mp3s. Indeed, many people who first touched base on Audiogalaxy still trade with proper audio cds today.

Don't forget, surprising as it may seem, that burners are a relatively newly available resource here too. And as for actual taping equipment, I'd be frankly surprised if you walked into even the best of our electrical stores today (even Peat's) asking for a K943D Excalibur DAT (Or something like that) and didn't get thrown out for using bad language. Therefore most shows, I'm afraid, will be recorded on an MD, and, if you're lucky, at least with a semi decent stereo mic. (Though I do know of frames stuff recorded on a regular condenser computer mic that still sounds pretty good...).

I know the quality of bootlegs is expected to be much higher in America, thanks to DMB and DG, but you've probably just got to accept that soundboards are out the window (I hate them anyway - Jeez the Union Chapel gig sounds dull - AUDs are far more warm and fuzzy and reminiscint of the gig you were at. Mmmmmhmmmm.) and that super high quality tape rigs clamped six inches from the speaker with a bass roll and several direct digital conversions through six or seven bits of processing gear aren't likely this decade either. Sorry to sound so cynical but that's the likelihood in Ireland anyway. Of course, what with the boy's new found fame in the US, I'm sure plenty will make their way out from there.

Info files are a rarity here, I appreciate that - Scon up there has been a trooper in trying to address that issue - I will admit I haven't done anything to help as yet, which is criminal saying as I taped a fair few of the shows here. I solemnly swear to make amends for this. Tsk tsk.

I get people offering to pay for bootlegs all the time - All I do is say I don't sell and offer a b&p if they have nothing to trade. Does my page really come across as offering to sell them? (Feedback here gladly welcomed)

But anyway, I've gone on waaaay too long. The FTP sounds like a great way to improve the transatlantic trade channels - Till now its been very much 3 or 4 people either side of the water doing all the swapping and then spreading it in inside their own jurisdictions, which works fine, but is pretty slow I admit. When I get some time I'll try and get round to SHN-ing & info-ing the shows I taped, and upload them. Till then best of luck with the endeavour...

Dub be good to y'all,

Geoff

http://framesaver.tripod.comEdited by: framesaver
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Old 09-30-2003, 11:37 AM   #37
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i actually find it quite distressing when I posted on damienrice.com about a boot I had or something months back, and to this day I'm still getting emails with people begging me to sell/b+p/email/upload it to them. That's starvation. Oh and there are just way too many factors constricting the "easier circulation" of damien rice gigs in ireland. Hell, I should know, I'm hoarding a few simply for the fact that I couldn't be bothered spend the time trying to send them half way across the world. and i think this is the case with a few other people I know. Edited by: hannadanna
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Old 09-30-2003, 11:38 AM   #38
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Plus, I have some old Juniper mp3s that I'll put up soon too, if that's ok - Old versions of I remember, Volcano, Amie ('Spaceship'), Me, My Yoke & I etcetera etcetera...
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Old 09-30-2003, 01:11 PM   #39
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Responses to everyone...


1) I got misconstrued. I never thought your site was selling those shows. The scans you had on your site look to me like inserts that would've been made to sell a show, so I thought they were all available somewhere for purchase. Ie: You had bought them and scanned the inserts. Comprende?

2) There was a comment about DMB/David Gray quality in the US... Im not sure if that came out how you wanted, but those are all AUD recordings, neither of those artists permit soundboards.

3) COMPENSATING THE TAPER!! Tapers know before they buy a rig that they will not be compensated. Its a hobby, not an expense.

4) The issue of spreading information to Damien fans and opening up the fanbase: Please, go check out what they are doing on onesweetworld.org I think its a great idea, but I can't implement it because Im not in Ireland.
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Old 09-30-2003, 01:54 PM   #40
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Mario, now that you mention the whole cdcover/inset thing, it reminded me of something I noticed about trading here. In the US, people tend to have stacks of shows in slim plastic or paper sleeves (or else in zipped holders), no cover art or anything.
I've noticed with trading here though, that many people tend to 'name' a show and make cover art for it to be used for a jewel case. I don't think anyone can see any harm in this, but it's not for me.. I've too many live shows to keep in thick jewel cases (though not nearly as many as some others).

Anyways, a suggestion relating to the FTP. A damien trading page perhaps? A site that could be pointed to for the purpose of setlist archives, links an usage instructions for the ftp (including links to SHN converting software, EAC, SmartFTP, free CD burning tools etc.), a run down on trading, pro's and cons of each area. Basically this entire thread in helpful, and everything else that comes to mind in readable English for people who don't know where to start. I think a setlist/recording info archive would benefit everyone.
I'm prepared to give it a go if anyone else wants it. I think it's the sort of thing that will grow quickly over time by input from the whole Ricey fanbase here.
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Old 09-30-2003, 02:11 PM   #41
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Scon,

Yeah, never understood the whole make a recording look like a live release with pretty pictures and all, way too much trouble to me. I have hundred of shows, kept in books.


About the website, absolutely, lets do it. I know nothing about website design and all, but will help with text and that sort of stuff. I had hoped to get the FTP up and running and then incorporate it into a site, but I need someone to do the technical stuff. Email me: mariodiclerico@aol.com
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Old 09-30-2003, 02:30 PM   #42
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Wow, it's so interesting how different everybody habits are.

I store data files (mpg, avi etc.) in slim jewel cases.

I store MP3 CD's in a carry-on case in plastic sleeves, content written directly on disc with a marker.

I store my "recordings" (If you like that term) in regular jewel cases along with commecial releases by the same artist. I *never* use a marker on those.

I'm curious: why do people keep so many live shows around at home? [img]smileys/smiley23.gif[/img] Obviously you have no time to listen to them.

It is driving me NUTS if people don't send set lists. It's so time consuming to create cover art. Some traders will *always* send jpg's along for inserts. Bless them. Geoff's inserts are a much appreciated reprive if and when I find use for them. [img]smileys/smiley1.gif[/img]
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Old 09-30-2003, 03:08 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angela
I'm curious: why do people keep so many live shows around at home? [img]smileys/smiley23.gif[/img] Obviously you have no time to listen to them.

It is driving me NUTS if people don't send set lists. It's so time consuming to create cover art. Some traders will *always* send jpg's along for inserts. Bless them. Geoff's inserts are a much appreciated reprive if and when I find use for them. [img]smileys/smiley1.gif[/img]
You have two questions there:

1) I have about 300 CDs worth of DMB spanning their 10 years. I keep all of those because they are all different. Different eras had different feels. Different shows had different feels. There are shows with Ben Harper guesting, and shows with Medeski, Martin, and Wood guesting, which run the extremes of rock to jazz.

I have 100 John Mayer CDs spanning 1999-2001. I keep those because at that time, I was running the only Mayer FTP, and had one of the most extensive Mayer collections around, so when people were looking for shows, I knew I had them.

That is what Im aiming to do with Damien's stuff.


2) In the US, if you download you download the info file. If you trade by mail, you print off and include the info file.
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Old 09-30-2003, 03:19 PM   #44
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I've never seen an info file until I got Damien's El Ray show. Must be an American thing. I mostly trade with Europe and Australia by mail.

You sound like you were born to do this kind of thing [img]smileys/smiley4.gif[/img]
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Old 09-30-2003, 03:23 PM   #45
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Wow Angela, you've now joined the elite 400+ posts group! There should be an award for that - a free eskimo friends t-shirt maybe?!
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Old 09-30-2003, 03:35 PM   #46
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I'm not sure if I should be proud or embarrassed now [img]smileys/smiley11.gif[/img] But thanks for pointing it out *breaks out the champagne* [img]smileys/smiley4.gif[/img]
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Old 09-30-2003, 04:57 PM   #47
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Mario, will drop you an email soon about that.

Angela, I have plenty of time to listen to them. I commute to college and the trip is an hour both ways. Plus I'm in art school so things can get pretty liberal about listening to music while working. I pretty much listen to music all day [img]smileys/smiley1.gif[/img]
Even if I didn't have as much time as that to listen to music, I'd still want to have as many shows as possible.
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Old 09-30-2003, 04:59 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angela
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scon
I'm happy to record any radio shows I'm made aware of through my ntl digital stb.
The day will come you will regret you mentioened this. [img]smileys/smiley15.gif[/img]

Ha, ha. Just kidding [img]smileys/smiley31.gif[/img] *clutches her crappy internet Damien Dempsey Mystery Train mono recording*
Oh and please do ask me if a Damien show is being broadcasted that I'm unaware of. I'll be very willing to record it [img]smileys/smiley1.gif[/img] I've done it for a few shows in the past.
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Old 09-30-2003, 05:58 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scon
Plus I'm in art school so things can get pretty liberal about listening to music while working.
Oh, that is cool! Yeah, that would make a difference!
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Old 09-30-2003, 08:12 PM   #50
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"And as for actual taping equipment, I'd be frankly surprised if you walked into even the best of our electrical stores today (even Peat's) asking for a K943D Excalibur DAT (Or something like that) and didn't get thrown out for using bad language."--Geoff

That cracked me up.. Thanks.. I needed that!
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Old 10-01-2003, 03:07 AM   #51
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i'm way to lazy to read all that sh*t but i'm the taper on the 5/30/03 show that people seem to think is one of the best out there. my rig for that was
AT831's &gt; Sound Pro's Slimline 9v battery module (bass rolloff at 107hz) &gt; Sharp MD-MT15 minidisc recorder

i know record with a nomad jukebox 3 instead of minidisc it records in up to 48hz (higher than normal wav files). anyhow, if anyone has questions, ask, i can probably answer a lot of random stuff. also

ISO: ONE TICKET TO LA 10/4 SO I CAN RECORD THE SHOW..HELP!

jon@mrazmerized.com
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Old 10-01-2003, 05:48 AM   #52
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how do you change the shn files to mp3
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Old 10-01-2003, 06:35 AM   #53
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Well it's probably best to decode them to .wav files if you were ripping them onto a cd so you can preserve the quality (you need a program like MKW Audio Compressor for that - http://www.etree.org/mkw.html) but if you still wanted to convert some of the files to mp3 after that you could uselots of different programs, two good ones are:


Blaze Media Pro (you can get it at: http://www.harmony-central.com/Software/Windows/audio_editing.htmlalong with a load of others)


The trial version of audio catalyst is also handy enough(http://www.xingtech.com/mp3/audiocat...=xingtech-home)
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Old 10-01-2003, 10:04 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil_eats

how do you change the shn files to mp3

We just spent three days and 30 posts discussing how you should NEVER EVER do that, and then not only do you ignore us, you ask us to help you!
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Old 10-01-2003, 10:21 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil_eats

how do you change the shn files to mp3
If you run a 32-bit Windows operating system (XP or 2000) you can use SoftSound's Shorten. It's a very easy to use decompression utility (SHN-&gt;WAV).

You then use your regular MP3 encoder to do the next conversion.
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Old 10-01-2003, 11:15 AM   #56
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OK so I think what most of us are agreeing on is that there definitely should be some sort of standard in taping Damien Rice show's. I mean, it definitely isn't too late to start, as 1-3 years isnt that long in bootlegging terms+it's usually not that hard to get the sources for most rec nowadays since most tapers/owners of the masters are well known... so basically i think a site should be set up, (like www.livenirvana.com) well comprising atleast of a tour date timeline+all known surfaced/unsurfaced gigs and their sources.

Am I correct in saying that this would be the best (and probably easiest) way to regulate all damien rice recordings?
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Old 10-01-2003, 11:56 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil_eats


how do you change the shn files to mp3


We just spent three days and 30 posts discussing how you should NEVER EVER do that, and then not only do you ignore us, you ask us to help you!

I just loved the irony in that! But it's a free world so if he wants to convert it to mp3 for his own use he's entitled to.
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Old 10-01-2003, 12:15 PM   #58
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I'm with Mario, Scon and Funky...
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Old 10-01-2003, 12:30 PM   #59
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Thank You Mario!
just a honest Thanks to you!
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Old 10-01-2003, 12:41 PM   #60
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I'm with mario too.
even if I'm not a taper nor trader; one has to respect their laws and not converting shn into mp3's (quality loss) is one of their laws. like an other not to put these files on p2p programs like kazaa.
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