Live @ Union Chapel

Travis · 11-04-2003, 04:27 PM

Regarding this show (CD), what are the particulars? Is this a show that can legally be distributed like any other show? I seriously hope not. On the back of the insert (I hate these things, by the way) it says "under exclusive license to vector recordings" as well as "© damien rice 2003, all rights reserved." This hardly sounds like a tradeable show, but if I'm wrong, tell me.I was one of the few who spent the extra buck to get the "official version" from ebay, but come to find out BMG is sending me a copy this week. Regardless, I don't know if this is something that can be traded.

I'm looking for any other high quality (uncopyrighted) recordings that might be available (i.e. - KCRW, etc). I have seen some "bootlegs" being sold on ebay which makes me think that these are available within the sharing community. Let me know.

framesaver · 11-05-2003, 03:00 AM

Here's a pretty comprehensive list of the damo bootlegs in circulation at present. It's just missing a few of the american radio braodcasts:

Date - Venue/Session - Source - Quality - CD #

04.10.03 Henry Fonda Theatre, LA AUD A 3
10.09.03 Theatre of Living Arts, PA AUD A- 2
15.08.03 Paradiso, Amsterdam - VideoCD Webcast A- 2
30.05.03 El Rey Theatre, LA AUD A- 2
05.05.03 North Six, New York AUD B+ 2
03.05.03 Fez Under Time, New York AUD B+ 1
01.05.03 Sin 'E Cafe, New York AUD B+ 2
24.03.03 Joe's Pub, New York AUD B+ 2
21.02.03 Hop & Grape, Manchester AUD B 2
19.02.03 Union Chapel Promo SBD A* 1
24.01.03 KCRW Session VideoCD Webcast B 1
24.01.03 & 01.11.02 The KCRW Sessions AudioCD Webcast A 2
04.03.03 Other Voices - Songs From A Room VideoCD TV A 1 19.12.02 St James' Church, Dingle AUD B 1
14.12.02 The Playhouse, Derry AUD A 2
09.12.02 The Olympia, Dublin AUD B- 1
08.12.02 The Olympia, Dublin AUD B 2
07.12.02 The Olympia, Dublin AUD A 2
28.11.02 The Taberncale, London AUD B 2
02.10.02 University College Cork AUD B- 1
29.08.02 Music City Instore, Rathmines, Dublin AUD A 1
11.07.02 HMV Instore, Grafton St, Dublin AUD A 1
06.05.02 Heineken Green Energy, Dublin Castle Broadcast A 1
22.03.02 MuseumsCafé, Passau AUD>MP3 C 1
01.03.02 The Olympia, Dublin AUD A 1
09.02.02 The Lobby, Cork AUD A 2
31.01.02 Vicar St, Dublin (Album Launch) AUD B 2
06.11.01 An Taibhdhearc, Galway AUD B 1
23.09.01 The Lobby, Cork AUD B 1
Edited by: framesaver

Bumpman · 11-05-2003, 06:58 AM

I'd love to hear damien play in Sin-e, little bit of history it is, when are we going to see a whole decent quality show available to download on THIS site... i know there's a lot of legal stuff, but c'mon, try it out... PLEEEEAAAAAASSSSSEEEEEE

Angela · 11-05-2003, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumpman

I'd love to hear damien play in Sin-e, little bit of history it is

The Sin-e where Jeff played no longer exists. It's currently a trance record store.

The current gigs take place in the new Sin-e's location and it's quite a different room from the old coffee house, much more gig oriented. (it's still owned by Shane Doyle, though.)

Travis · 11-06-2003, 12:07 AM

No one really answered my main question, which was "Is it legal to trade Union Chapel?" I would imagine not, but please let me know. Thanks

framesaver · 11-06-2003, 02:52 AM

Well, it's probably not 100% legal, but it's a hell of a lot more acceptable than selling it on ebay in my opinion. Mercenary dogs.

Angela · 11-06-2003, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis

No one really answered my main question, which was "Is it legal to trade Union Chapel?"* I would imagine not, but please let me know.* Thanks

Of course not.

The Kitten · 11-06-2003, 02:14 PM

[quote=Travis]

No one really answered my main question, which was "Is it legal to trade Union Chapel?" I would imagine not, but please let me know. Thanks

No, it is absolutely illegal - total breach of copyright

Funky Avocado · 11-06-2003, 02:46 PM

I see nothing wrong with trading the show as long as no money is exchanged. The goal BMG had in mind was to spread the good word about Damo by offering up a free promo cd. Frankly, if you are trading the cd you're doing some of the work for BMG as well as free advertising for Damien. Not only that, I don't believe that DRM is receiving any royalties as well. It seems like a win win situation for everyone except the chumps on Ebay kicking down $40 for the cd when you can easily find a copy of the show for free in a handful of ways. Just my .02

Angela · 11-06-2003, 03:10 PM

Well. it's a commercial copyrighted release. 'Nuf said! You could email Vector Records and ask what they think of your view [img]smileys/smiley17.gif[/img]

mierk · 11-06-2003, 07:01 PM

Yeah, I gotta think Angela and The Kitten are right on this one. A similar question came up on another music message board for a band that allows taping of their shows. They had released a special promo cd of live songs from their Summer tour for people who preordered their latest release, and people wanted to know if it was okay to trade. Someone contacted the band's management and the official word that came back was no, it wasn't okay, so that was that.

NOW...all that being said, it's probably going to continue to get traded, which is a far sight better than people going and dropping 50 bucks for it on Ebay. But if we as a fan community aretrying to convince Damien's management to encourage taping and trading of live shows, then it's probably better not to officially encourage trading copyrighted material to show that we can play by the rules.

Travis · 11-06-2003, 07:59 PM

Well, that's good to hear. I share the opinion that this CD should not be traded, as it is an EXCLUSIVE CD. But I don't like it when people say things about people charging $xx amount on ebay for the disc, or how it's "unacceptable." People sell Warehouse CDs all the time, and no one bats an eye. It's the price you pay for not being part of some group. However, no one's forcing you to buy anything. Like I have mentioned before, I like high quality audio -- moreover, I like acquiring official (licensed) releases. The fact that it's exclusive content makes it so valuable, especially to people not part of the BMG Music service. It works the same with anything rare.

I'm not trying to be an elitist or a die-hard collecter, I just care about my music and where it comes from. If there's a release out there, I'd rather have that than go the trading route.

Travis · 11-06-2003, 08:00 PM

I got caught up in the moment, thanks to all who responded.

mierk · 11-06-2003, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis

People sell Warehouse CDs all the time, and no one bats an eye. It's the price you pay for not being part of some group.

Actually, the Warehouse CDs were the ones I was referring to in my post. The mods on nancies.org decided that these cds, along with the ones released with the recent Some Devil or upcoming Central Park releases, were not to be publically traded on the boards. This isn't to say that it won't still go on quietly behind the scenes, but they were at least not going to trade any official releases.

Travis · 11-08-2003, 03:01 PM

@ mierk:

I was referring to the selling of these CDs online. I was trying to make a point about people complaining about high prices on ebay. Anyway, for those of you who are members of BMG or are thinking about joining, it looks like they are now selling the CD (you could also grab it as one of your free enrollment titles). The selection number is below:

D148736

Mario · 11-10-2003, 05:14 PM

It is not for sale. It is in no way exclusive. (Warehouse CDs are available only to members of the Warehouse.) Therefore, it can be traded.

Use your heads. The reason you don't trade albums is that it gives someone a copy of an album without reimbursing the artist. The Union Chapel is being distributed for free, thus trading it does not do anyone an injustice.

Additionally, its not even in print anymore, is it? Its generally acceptable to trade something that is no longer commercially available.

Angela · 11-10-2003, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mario

The Union Chapel is being distributed for free, thus trading it does not do anyone an injustice.

Additionally, its not even in print anymore, is it?

This was a pressing of 200,000. Given Damien sold 40,000 copies of 'O' by some date recently, it's safe to assume there are plenty copies left and there's nothing exclusive about it, indeed.

BMG is now selling the remaining copies to its members, BTW.

Mario · 11-11-2003, 02:13 PM

BMG is now selling the remaining copies to its members, BTW.

How much?

Angela · 11-11-2003, 02:18 PM

I'm not a member, so I can't see the price. I heard about $18+, though most of their CD's seem to fall in the $13+ range, so I don't know if that number is true. But it is definitely being sold now.

Travis · 11-12-2003, 06:39 PM

Why is it when I say BMG is selling them now, Mario says "no they aren't" but when Angela says they are he asks "how much?" I am a member of BMG and currently it's set at $17.98 plus shipping which is $2.79. If you actually join and do the club, you can get 12 CDs (incl. Live at Union Chapel) for around $4.30 a CD.

Angela · 11-12-2003, 08:58 PM

I've been trying to join, I can never find 11 interesting CD's there. The place is hard to browse with only mainstream categories. (I liked the "world music" one!) They did sell me 'Moon & Antarctica' for $7 incl. s/h the other day, so I bought that along with some Nina Simone.

What a rip-off to sell the Union Chapel one for almost $21. I can't believe Damo agred to have his US label engage in that kind of thing [img]smileys/smiley7.gif[/img]

Trade away, I say!

Funky Avocado · 11-12-2003, 09:24 PM

I knew you would see our way Angela. :-)

I couldn't find a decent 10 cassette tapes for a whole whopping penny over 15 years ago. I can't understand how Damo got involved in that fiasco as BMG is a commercialized monopoly joke.

Mario · 11-12-2003, 09:59 PM

Obviously I missed your post. For the last 6 months, BMG has been giving it away for free.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis

Why is it when I say BMG is selling them now, Mario says "no they aren't" but when Angela says they are he asks "how much?"* I am a member of BMG and currently it's set at $17.98 plus shipping which is $2.79.* If you actually join and do the club, you can get 12 CDs (incl. Live at Union Chapel) for around $4.30 a CD.

Angela · 11-12-2003, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funky Avocado

I knew you would see our way Angela. :-)

I couldn't find a decent 10 cassette tapes for a whole whopping penny over 15 years ago. I can't understand how Damo got involved in that fiasco as BMG is a commercialized monopoly joke.

I don't mind if Damien wants to sell his CD's at Walmart. It's the price that galls me. $21 for 8 tracks?

Can somebody talk to Mr. "This award means nothing to me" about this?? Like pull him into a dark corner at the next gig and ask him a few questions? [img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img]

Btw, it took me 40 minutes to find 3 CD's. The third one was "Best of Byrds". I guess that tells you something, eh [img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img] I was really surprised they had Modest Mouse!

emusic.com has a pretty good "50 MP3's for free" try-out deal, btw. They have all of Cat Power.

neil_eats · 11-15-2003, 07:23 AM

i paid 50 quid for my union chapel cd, was under the impression i wasnt gonna get it any cheaper may as well whip up a copy before they are all lost burned or thrown in the bin by people who didnt want 'free crap'.

Angela · 11-15-2003, 10:19 AM

"Scarcity" is a great marketing ploy. Look how they called it a "limited edition". While technically true, they actually pressed 200,000 member promos whereas the album had sold 40,000.

11-05-2003, 03:00 AM	#2
framesaver Eskimo Regular Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Virgin Islands Posts: 185	Here's a pretty comprehensive list of the damo bootlegs in circulation at present. It's just missing a few of the american radio braodcasts: Date - Venue/Session - Source - Quality - CD # 04.10.03 Henry Fonda Theatre, LA AUD A 3 10.09.03 Theatre of Living Arts, PA AUD A- 2 15.08.03 Paradiso, Amsterdam - VideoCD Webcast A- 2 30.05.03 El Rey Theatre, LA AUD A- 2 05.05.03 North Six, New York AUD B+ 2 03.05.03 Fez Under Time, New York AUD B+ 1 01.05.03 Sin 'E Cafe, New York AUD B+ 2 24.03.03 Joe's Pub, New York AUD B+ 2 21.02.03 Hop & Grape, Manchester AUD B 2 19.02.03 Union Chapel Promo SBD A* 1 24.01.03 KCRW Session VideoCD Webcast B 1 24.01.03 & 01.11.02 The KCRW Sessions AudioCD Webcast A 2 04.03.03 Other Voices - Songs From A Room VideoCD TV A 1 19.12.02 St James' Church, Dingle AUD B 1 14.12.02 The Playhouse, Derry AUD A 2 09.12.02 The Olympia, Dublin AUD B- 1 08.12.02 The Olympia, Dublin AUD B 2 07.12.02 The Olympia, Dublin AUD A 2 28.11.02 The Taberncale, London AUD B 2 02.10.02 University College Cork AUD B- 1 29.08.02 Music City Instore, Rathmines, Dublin AUD A 1 11.07.02 HMV Instore, Grafton St, Dublin AUD A 1 06.05.02 Heineken Green Energy, Dublin Castle Broadcast A 1 22.03.02 MuseumsCafé, Passau AUD>MP3 C 1 01.03.02 The Olympia, Dublin AUD A 1 09.02.02 The Lobby, Cork AUD A 2 31.01.02 Vicar St, Dublin (Album Launch) AUD B 2 06.11.01 An Taibhdhearc, Galway AUD B 1 23.09.01 The Lobby, Cork AUD B 1 Edited by: framesaver __________________ All the cheer raining down on the day comes to nothing and leaves by the broom <font size="1"> Lucky by Hem</font>

11-06-2003, 02:52 AM	#6
framesaver Eskimo Regular Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Virgin Islands Posts: 185	Well, it's probably not 100% legal, but it's a hell of a lot more acceptable than selling it on ebay in my opinion. Mercenary dogs. __________________ All the cheer raining down on the day comes to nothing and leaves by the broom <font size="1"> Lucky by Hem</font>

11-06-2003, 02:14 PM	#8
The Kitten Eskimo Regular Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tajikista Posts: 149	[quote=Travis] No one really answered my main question, which was "Is it legal to trade Union Chapel?" I would imagine not, but please let me know. Thanks No, it is absolutely illegal - total breach of copyright __________________ 'its better to burn out than to fade away'

11-06-2003, 07:01 PM	#11
mierk Eskimo Regular Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: United States Posts: 234	Yeah, I gotta think Angela and The Kitten are right on this one. A similar question came up on another music message board for a band that allows taping of their shows. They had released a special promo cd of live songs from their Summer tour for people who preordered their latest release, and people wanted to know if it was okay to trade. Someone contacted the band's management and the official word that came back was no, it wasn't okay, so that was that. NOW...all that being said, it's probably going to continue to get traded, which is a far sight better than people going and dropping 50 bucks for it on Ebay. But if we as a fan community aretrying to convince Damien's management to encourage taping and trading of live shows, then it's probably better not to officially encourage trading copyrighted material to show that we can play by the rules. __________________ I've this creeping suspicion that things here are not as they seem...

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11-04-2003, 04:27 PM	#1
Travis Eskimo Baby Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: United States Posts: 16	Regarding this show (CD), what are the particulars? Is this a show that can legally be distributed like any other show? I seriously hope not. On the back of the insert (I hate these things, by the way) it says "under exclusive license to vector recordings" as well as "© damien rice 2003, all rights reserved." This hardly sounds like a tradeable show, but if I'm wrong, tell me.I was one of the few who spent the extra buck to get the "official version" from ebay, but come to find out BMG is sending me a copy this week. Regardless, I don't know if this is something that can be traded. I'm looking for any other high quality (uncopyrighted) recordings that might be available (i.e. - KCRW, etc). I have seen some "bootlegs" being sold on ebay which makes me think that these are available within the sharing community. Let me know.

11-05-2003, 06:58 AM	#3
Bumpman ... Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,801	I'd love to hear damien play in Sin-e, little bit of history it is, when are we going to see a whole decent quality show available to download on THIS site... i know there's a lot of legal stuff, but c'mon, try it out... PLEEEEAAAAAASSSSSEEEEEE

11-06-2003, 12:07 AM	#5
Travis Eskimo Baby Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: United States Posts: 16	No one really answered my main question, which was "Is it legal to trade Union Chapel?" I would imagine not, but please let me know. Thanks

11-06-2003, 02:46 PM	#9
Funky Avocado Eskimo Regular Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 204	I see nothing wrong with trading the show as long as no money is exchanged. The goal BMG had in mind was to spread the good word about Damo by offering up a free promo cd. Frankly, if you are trading the cd you're doing some of the work for BMG as well as free advertising for Damien. Not only that, I don't believe that DRM is receiving any royalties as well. It seems like a win win situation for everyone except the chumps on Ebay kicking down $40 for the cd when you can easily find a copy of the show for free in a handful of ways. Just my .02

11-06-2003, 03:10 PM	#10
Angela Eskimo Regular Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: cloud #9 Posts: 5,029	Well. it's a commercial copyrighted release. 'Nuf said! You could email Vector Records and ask what they think of your view [img]smileys/smiley17.gif[/img]

11-06-2003, 07:59 PM	#12
Travis Eskimo Baby Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: United States Posts: 16	Well, that's good to hear. I share the opinion that this CD should not be traded, as it is an EXCLUSIVE CD. But I don't like it when people say things about people charging $xx amount on ebay for the disc, or how it's "unacceptable." People sell Warehouse CDs all the time, and no one bats an eye. It's the price you pay for not being part of some group. However, no one's forcing you to buy anything. Like I have mentioned before, I like high quality audio -- moreover, I like acquiring official (licensed) releases. The fact that it's exclusive content makes it so valuable, especially to people not part of the BMG Music service. It works the same with anything rare. I'm not trying to be an elitist or a die-hard collecter, I just care about my music and where it comes from. If there's a release out there, I'd rather have that than go the trading route.

11-06-2003, 08:00 PM	#13
Travis Eskimo Baby Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: United States Posts: 16	I got caught up in the moment, thanks to all who responded.

11-08-2003, 03:01 PM	#15
Travis Eskimo Baby Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: United States Posts: 16	@ mierk: I was referring to the selling of these CDs online. I was trying to make a point about people complaining about high prices on ebay. Anyway, for those of you who are members of BMG or are thinking about joining, it looks like they are now selling the CD (you could also grab it as one of your free enrollment titles). The selection number is below: D148736

11-10-2003, 05:14 PM	#16
Mario Eskimo Regular Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: United States Posts: 191	It is not for sale. It is in no way exclusive. (Warehouse CDs are available only to members of the Warehouse.) Therefore, it can be traded. Use your heads. The reason you don't trade albums is that it gives someone a copy of an album without reimbursing the artist. The Union Chapel is being distributed for free, thus trading it does not do anyone an injustice. Additionally, its not even in print anymore, is it? Its generally acceptable to trade something that is no longer commercially available.

11-11-2003, 02:13 PM	#18
Mario Eskimo Regular Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: United States Posts: 191	BMG is now selling the remaining copies to its members, BTW. How much?

11-11-2003, 02:18 PM	#19
Angela Eskimo Regular Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: cloud #9 Posts: 5,029	I'm not a member, so I can't see the price. I heard about $18+, though most of their CD's seem to fall in the $13+ range, so I don't know if that number is true. But it is definitely being sold now.

11-12-2003, 06:39 PM	#20
Travis Eskimo Baby Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: United States Posts: 16	Why is it when I say BMG is selling them now, Mario says "no they aren't" but when Angela says they are he asks "how much?" I am a member of BMG and currently it's set at $17.98 plus shipping which is $2.79. If you actually join and do the club, you can get 12 CDs (incl. Live at Union Chapel) for around $4.30 a CD.

11-12-2003, 08:58 PM	#21
Angela Eskimo Regular Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: cloud #9 Posts: 5,029	I've been trying to join, I can never find 11 interesting CD's there. The place is hard to browse with only mainstream categories. (I liked the "world music" one!) They did sell me 'Moon & Antarctica' for $7 incl. s/h the other day, so I bought that along with some Nina Simone. What a rip-off to sell the Union Chapel one for almost $21. I can't believe Damo agred to have his US label engage in that kind of thing [img]smileys/smiley7.gif[/img] Trade away, I say!

11-12-2003, 09:24 PM	#22
Funky Avocado Eskimo Regular Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 204	I knew you would see our way Angela. :-) I couldn't find a decent 10 cassette tapes for a whole whopping penny over 15 years ago. I can't understand how Damo got involved in that fiasco as BMG is a commercialized monopoly joke.

11-15-2003, 07:23 AM	#25
neil_eats Eskimo Regular Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 500	i paid 50 quid for my union chapel cd, was under the impression i wasnt gonna get it any cheaper may as well whip up a copy before they are all lost burned or thrown in the bin by people who didnt want 'free crap'.

11-15-2003, 10:19 AM	#26
Angela Eskimo Regular Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: cloud #9 Posts: 5,029	"Scarcity" is a great marketing ploy. Look how they called it a "limited edition". While technically true, they actually pressed 200,000 member promos whereas the album had sold 40,000.