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Old 10-08-2006, 01:07 PM   #91
ZachC
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how do you figure that ?? alot of my friends smoke marijuana everyday like cigerattes and they are the most responsible people i know ... just because someone smokes does'nt make them a loser or one of the stereotypical smokers that just sits around and plays video games .... but then again who does'nt stereotype ... everyone does in some way shape or form ... oh well .... i smoke and drink and smoke but im still responsible and i know my priorities before my pleasures
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Old 10-08-2006, 02:54 PM   #92
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You picked up on what I said wrong, I meant that the people who don't do anything are the basement people. Also, Dungeons and Dragons isn't a videogame, it's a boardgame. In any case, let's not get into trying to weigh the level of intelligence and capacity for reason between groups of people that probably number into the billions. It's a moot point. I too know plenty of highly aware people who abuse any number of substances, but their level of responsibility in their daily lives has no bearing on the fact that marijuana is a Group A carcinogenic, which means that it's a direct cause of cancer.

In reality what you're talking about extends to your definition of responsibility, whether you think that people have a duty to themselves to preserve their quality of life, or alternatively that they would be within the bounds of responsibility to ingest carcinogenics. Take this into consideration though;
Quote:
Carcinogens may cause cancer by altering cellular metabolism or damaging DNA directly in cells, which interferes with normal biological processes.
You see, it's not just you who pays, it's your children, and their children. If you mentioned that to your responsible friends, would they believe you?
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Old 10-08-2006, 07:29 PM   #93
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Ah, who cares about the kids. They're all doomed anyway, the wars and global warming will get them before the hypothetical, smoke-induced damage to their DNA ever does.
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Old 10-08-2006, 07:59 PM   #94
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No its true, even if you go outside for a smoke, lock the door, have a shower and bath, clean your teeth, change your clothes, kids can still pick up on that 64.3% evil you create from just having a bit of tobacco.



Detector explodes....
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Old 10-08-2006, 08:34 PM   #95
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That's sort of the point though. It's so hard to believe that it's almost funny.

And when they say that it's carcinogenic they don't mean it like second hand smoke sticks to your clothes when you're in the room, they (World Health Organisation) mean that it damages your DNA, and your DNA is what essentially decides the kind of life that your descendants will have. The point is that you're not just affecting yourself physically, but also genetically.

But hey, f*ck them. As Bill Hicks would say, "you're not a person until you're in my f*cking phone book, until then you're just coagulated cells."
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Old 10-08-2006, 09:24 PM   #96
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Uh huh. So what about pollution from car/van/bus/truck engines, Aeroplanes, chemical factories, coal-burning power stations, pylons, foundries, etc All that does less damage to people than smoking? Whatever. Anyhoo, I'm not passing on my genes, so blah.
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Old 10-08-2006, 09:26 PM   #97
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not only does he drink, but it appears to me that he drinks NEWCASTLE BROWN ALE : HURRRAAAH!!
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Old 10-08-2006, 11:56 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpman
As Bill Hicks would say
what a legend
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Old 10-09-2006, 12:40 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenmeanie
Uh huh. So what about pollution from car/van/bus/truck engines, Aeroplanes, chemical factories, coal-burning power stations, pylons, foundries, etc All that does less damage to people than smoking? Whatever. Anyhoo, I'm not passing on my genes, so blah.
Most of it does less damage then smoking, you'll notice the subtle difference with truck engines is that you usually don't put your mouth on the exhaust (unless you're very confused). Chemical factories are usually relatively safe until they explode, like this one did recently. Pylons are the one's you really have to watch out for, living under them causes brain cancer (especially in kids under fifteen). The odd thing about that is since it's so dangerous the land prices plummet, which causes the department of education to buy up the land for development of schools.
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Old 10-09-2006, 03:24 AM   #100
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:-( He's gonna ruin his vocal chords! Does Lisa smoke too?
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Old 10-09-2006, 09:22 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windgirl
:-( He's gonna ruin his vocal chords! Does Lisa smoke too?
He must've been doing it for at least 10 years and if my ears don't decieve me he has the most beautiful voice I've ever heard. So bring on the fags, that's what I say.

And no, I'm not a smoker
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Old 10-09-2006, 10:24 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpman
Most of it does less damage then smoking, you'll notice the subtle difference with truck engines is that you usually don't put your mouth on the exhaust (unless you're very confused). Chemical factories are usually relatively safe until they explode, like this one did recently. Pylons are the one's you really have to watch out for, living under them causes brain cancer (especially in kids under fifteen). The odd thing about that is since it's so dangerous the land prices plummet, which causes the department of education to buy up the land for development of schools.
Okay Bumpman, didn't realise you were an environmental expert. Clearly my 20 fags a week is much worse than the power station down the road which has 8 of those huge chimneys pumping out coal fumes 24 hours a day Brainwashed much?
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Old 10-09-2006, 10:35 AM   #103
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I think Bumpman's talking about damage to people, not damage to the environment...
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Old 10-09-2006, 11:12 AM   #104
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And people don't live in the environment? It's all breathing.
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Old 10-09-2006, 11:16 AM   #105
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Yes, but I would have thought that with smoking all the crap goes straight into your lungs, whereas with a power station all the crap goes up and mixes with the air and so only a tiny amount of it is inhaled.
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Old 10-09-2006, 11:42 AM   #106
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The part I objected to was the insinuation that smokers damage other people by smoking, and that smokers are irresponsible. I'm saying that all the hazards above do more damage to other people than I do. What we do to ourselves is our business.
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Old 10-09-2006, 12:52 PM   #107
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But smokers DO harm others, through passive smoking...
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Old 10-09-2006, 01:22 PM   #108
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I wasn't implying anything from a passive smoking angle. Also trying to turn scientific fact sourced from the WHO/EPA into a debate won't get you far. Phillip Morris has been trying to do it for years and he was prosecuted for it. Your point about damaging yourself being a drop in the ocean compared to enviormental pollution is fair enough. But the ethics that say you have the right to smoke are the same ones that say that a business has the right to create products and have at least some impact on the enviorment. Are you saying that a fair judicial system in your mind would prioritise finding fault with a small number of people doing a large amount of damage before a large number of people each doing a small amount of damage? I don't claim to be an enviormental expert. I would certainly take issue with the idea that I've been brainwashed to believe that cigarettes are bad. Even to a point of being worse then carbon emissions.

My point is that you have the right to do whatever you want to do with your life, Just don't try to justify genetically impacting yourself with carcinogenics against the fact that power stations are depleting the ozone. Especially in the context that you can do that and still be responsible. The truth is that once cancer is in your DNA it will affect your family for generations, and that's not an opinion, it's fact. You see, it's not passive smoking which is the issue, it's cancer... and no, you don't have a right to pass it on.
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Old 10-09-2006, 03:04 PM   #109
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As I’ve already said, I'm NOT passing it on, since I am never having children. And even if I was, it would still be no one else's business. You are talking about theory, someone says smoking changes your DNA and that of your future offspring - okay, and there are no doubt countless others who will say the opposite. If you take one persons research as fact so easily, then yes I would perhaps suggest you have some programming that makes you do so. Plenty of people smoke all their lives and don't get cancer; plenty of others have never touched a cigarette and do. Life's a biatch, and there are plenty of ways we are all killing ourselves, and are being damaged by others. I find it ridiculous and sad that people are so easily influenced that they will vehemently focus on just one issue, like you and so many others.
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Old 10-09-2006, 04:28 PM   #110
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I do agree with you in that you do have the right to live your own life as you please, because realistically people do need to be free enough to choose what they'd like to believe. On that note though I would make one very important point. I'm not talking about theory. I'm talking about fact. Carcinogens are fact. Their principal effects aren't challenged by any reputable scientific institution.

Despite that, I'm not actually bothered by smoking in practice, and I'm definitely not one of those people who brings this crap up whenever someone whips out a pack of matches. The reason I take issue with it is because ZachC claimed that smoking marijuana every day fitted in the context of a responsible lifestyle. I dispute that on the grounds of genetic evidence. Nothing else.

And lastly, I think everyone knows at least one person who's either smoked 60 a day and lived to be 100, or dropped dead for no reason at 20. No-one disputes that the presence of cancer in humans seems totally random and often strikes at people who have spent their lives trying to avoid it. However, there's more then enough evidence to persuade people at this stage that many (if not most) cancers are avoidable. Which, for the record, is not "one person's research". But rather has been (along with HIV), the most pressing issue facing the worldwide medical community in the last 35 years.

I'm not just focusing on this one issue because it's convenient to me. The real question is whether you prefer to leave the issue of smoking aside because it doesn't play well against your discomfort with pollution. I don't take issue with your personal choices. Only with your definition of responsibility as it relates to this.
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Old 10-12-2006, 03:55 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpman
My point is that you have the right to do whatever you want to do with your life, Just don't try to justify genetically impacting yourself with carcinogenics against the fact that power stations are depleting the ozone. Especially in the context that you can do that and still be responsible. The truth is that once cancer is in your DNA it will affect your family for generations, and that's not an opinion, it's fact. You see, it's not passive smoking which is the issue, it's cancer... and no, you don't have a right to pass it on.
i tried to refrain from responding to this because i get the feeling it's hitting too close to home or something, but i'm sorry this is simply wrong. it doesn't work that way, you don't pass cancer on anymore than you can catch it from someone else..

you either have an inherited genetic mutation that makes the cells weaker and causes a predisposition to cancer (in you and your family/bloodline) or you have an acquired genetic mutation from something in the environment (sunlight, smoke, well done meat) that can cause cancer, but you don't pass on acquired genetic damage to the next generation because it doesn't affect the reproductive cells, just the organs affected by the cancer.. if you have both then the risk increases

but beyond all that it's troubling to me when someone makes a sweeping value judgement about anyone elses level of responsibility or ethics or what they have the "right" to do as it relates to their private life. especially in matters as personal as childbearing and parenting without the benefit of knowing any of the people in question, or having done either of the former themselves.

it's just not anybody's place to do that. what you said isn't true or a fact, but if it were.. i have an inherited genetic mutation that can cause birth defects and deafness. do i have the "right" to have children and pass it on? does anyone else have the "right" to even ask that question? no they don't. it's a private matter and a personal choice.
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Old 10-12-2006, 04:02 AM   #112
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everybody already knows smoking is bad for you, there's no need to belabor the point, it's been done past overkill already anyway
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpman
But hey, f*ck them. As Bill Hicks would say, "you're not a person until you're in my f*cking phone book, until then you're just coagulated cells."
what a quote! it's about abortion, right? pesky civil liberty issues, they're everywhere..

i like these too

"I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I recommend you look around the world in which we live, and … I don't know, shut your ****ing mouth?"

"Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I ****, what I take into my body – as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

"Your denial is beneath you, but thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs, I see through you."

the last one cracks me up
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