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Old 09-28-2003, 01:02 AM   #1
Mario
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As I have posted about a month ago here and on the official site, I am trying to create a Damien FTP. Its the onyl way to get people to understand the whole trading thing. As it is I have about a half dozen shows, but only two in shn. All this Europe stuff is MP3d still...

Im looking for anyone who taped this year, on either continent to get a hold of me. Id like to get whatever US stuff got taped available, and Id like to get the Europe stuff reconverted to shn.

My email is mariodiclerico@aol.com

You can check out my ftp here:
24.193.247.136
Damien / Rice
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Old 09-28-2003, 03:11 AM   #2
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all i have is the el rey show.. i think its the 5-30 show

plus live at the lobby and

2 live at kcrw shows


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Old 09-28-2003, 04:59 AM   #3
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I know of only one or two European show's that are mp3, what source are you getting them from?
We definitely need the trading ftp though, thanks for making an attempt at setting one up.
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Old 09-28-2003, 10:35 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patchipu
all i have is the el rey show.. i think its the 5-30 show
That's already up on the server.
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Old 09-28-2003, 03:26 PM   #5
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The mp3 stuff Im hoping someone has a master of to reencode is:

2003-08-15 **
Live at the Lobby (No further info)
Live From Union Chapel (No further info)
Pet Sounds Interview (No further info)
Goldfish Memory #
Morning Becomes Eclectic @

** - This was a webcast and Im told wouldn't benefit from having been put in SHN. So, Im looking for a copy taken before the webcast before it got dropped in quality. No idea if this even exists.

# - This is a CD, so there is absolutely no reason it should have been encoded into MP3s.

@ - This is actually in Real Audio!?! Could someone get it into Wav or SHN please?



EDIT: Additionally, what do we have to do to get MP3s off of this site, since it's only encouraging the problem?Edited by: Mario
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Old 09-28-2003, 04:15 PM   #6
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Yeh, unfortunately those who recorded the webcasted ones like to encode them to lossy formats.

Which Lobby show are you talking about? There's more than one, and I know they're in circulation lossless. Perhaps Geoff might be able to help you out with this one if he's reading.

I'd help you out with the Goldfish Memory songs, but am without broadband at the moment. It should be easy to find someone who has both I'm sure.

Ditto for Union Chapel.

The KCRW (MBEclectic) show is only available as a webcast recording. I know there's a version that is of reasonable quality, but I'm not sure how bad your one is?

And re: your last bit, I completely agree.
You really have to understand the trading scene in Ireland first to understand. It's almost non-existant. People are happy to buy bad quality bootlegs in small recordstores and download mp3s. That satisfies them completetely. Most see no reason to take 10 times longer downloading a song/show for 'full quality' if the mp3 they're hearing sounds fine.
I think it's largely because of the absense of trading, like I said. Most have no plans to offer the shows on, list what they have to help out others, and know that it's quite easy to seek out other shows. Therefore the fact that the show might degenerate means little.
I should also point out that broadband has had a poor reception here (due to rediculous pricing), most stick to dialup, so mp3 is realistically the only option. I myself still have to get shows by mail.

All I'm doing at the moment is sounding like a broken record whenever I comment on an mp3/taping thread of an irish music forum, pointing out the above. I'm not sure what else to do.

Edited by: Scon
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Old 09-28-2003, 04:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario
Pet Sounds Interview (No further info)
I uploaded that. I got it from Ireland, like most of the other gigabytes of Irish music MP3's I have [img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img]
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Old 09-28-2003, 06:22 PM   #8
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1) Okay, so Irish trading is stuck in 1990. Got it. But aren't the tapers themselves atleast educated? I mean, they spent all the money on rigs, don't they understand the difference?

2) Angela, could you upload a text file of any information about what it is? Location, Date, etc.

3) I have no idea what Lobby show it is, the MP3s are titled "live at the lobby" and there's, once again, no text file.... It opens with Delicate and closes with Me, My Yoke, And I if that helps.

4) Im not trying to be rude here, or personal to any of you specifically, just speaking in general terms. However, Irish fans don't care about quality, are perfectly happy to buy illegal recordings that the artist gets no profit from, and then they complain when artists like Damien spend more time touring the US? I don't understand at all.
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Old 09-28-2003, 08:29 PM   #9
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You don't seem very familiar with Irish music, Mario.

Live At The Lobby is a classic bootleg. You can get the art work for this (and others) at Geoff's site

Petsounds is Tom Dunne's program on Today FM. Ever heard Today FM? Edited by: Angela
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Old 09-29-2003, 03:06 AM   #10
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theres something wrong with the 9-10-03 show....
every time i try to dl disc 2 track 8, it fails, it times out



maybe its something with my program, i don't know
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Old 09-29-2003, 10:13 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patchipu
theres something wrong with the 9-10-03 show....
every time i try to dl disc 2 track 8, it fails, it times out
I didn't have a problem. It's a big file, though.
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Old 09-29-2003, 11:46 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angela
You don't seem very familiar with Irish music, Mario.

Live At The Lobby is a classic bootleg. You can get the art work for this (and others) at Geoff's site

Petsounds is Tom Dunne's program on Today FM. Ever heard Today FM?

Not sure what you're implying there, but:

1) I live in Philadelphia, so I've never listened to European radio...

2) I am not unfamiliar with Irish music, however the more I learn about the actual music scene, the more appalled I am. That link you gave me, these are all Damien shows being sold in MP3 format!? Now I understand why here in the US we have such incredible difficulty getting David Gray and Damien to let us tape them.

3) Though that site has a picture for "Live in the Lobby" I'd like information about it. Dates, equipment, etc. not just the cover art.... (the link connects to yahoo or something... Im not even sure what it does...)
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Old 09-29-2003, 11:46 AM   #13
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i don't get it
what's the login and what the password?
maybe i'm stupid or so
but it just don't works!
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Old 09-29-2003, 11:51 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennyhuggel
what's the login and what the password?
Damien + Rice [img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img]
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Old 09-29-2003, 11:54 AM   #15
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hey there mario,
remember me? We talked awhile back (actually when you first set up the ftp) and I started you off by uploading a couple of shows (the el rey+a couple of videos i think) well i've recorded a few webcasts (straight to wav format) and I can easily change the morning becomes eclectic to .wav. I'm on broadband by the way. Well I wouldn't say that all irish traders are that bad, I've traded with Geoff once or twice in the past, and quite a couple more and all are the most efficient in the world. Maybe the problem is that there is a lack of damien rice traders/bootleggers? I think thats the problem..

Ill get working on the ftp mario. You have my email address from before, but just incase it's hannadanna@eircom.net . That's if you want to enquire further.
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Old 09-29-2003, 02:07 PM   #16
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Mario,

I think it's great that you are willing to set up an ftp server to share Damien's music, but in situations like this it helps to also acknowlege that there is actually a Damien Rice community out there that has existed for many years. Calling it "appaling" isn't going to make you too many friends.

Maybe in Ireland documenting recording equipments isn't deemed as important. It's not a question of being "behind". Different strokes for different folks and such. Tolerance goes a long way, no matter what country you are in.

Geoff isn't selling those recordings. I don't know anybody *selling* Irish independent music. It's a trading list. He's also spent a lot of time making all those inserts and they are appreciated in several communities, including the Frames one. (The date for the Lobby show was shown on the page I linked to, if you look again.)

I don't know why you would have difficulties recording Damien's shows. He is personally not against it (this has been discussed elsewhere here).

As far as radio goes there are only a few radio programs in Ireland that support independent Irish music and everybody who is into that type of music listens to them quite regularly (at least that is my impression). You can get them all over the internet. You can find those listed at http://www.irishmusiccentral.com/

I don't know about others here, but I try to catch those online (webcast recording) or some friendly Irish soul will record it (method unknown) and email me an MP3 like 3 minutes after the show is over. I have a gigantic collection of Irish music acquired that way, but I guess you'll never get to see it on your sever, because for the life of me I couldn't tell you it's source (like the Petsound sessions I uploaded).

In short, if you want to do it *your* way, you are going to miss out and so will the people you want to share the music with. Some kind of compromise seems in order.

Angela

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Old 09-29-2003, 03:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angela
Mario,

I think it's great that you are willing to set up an ftp server to share Damien's music, but in situations like this it helps to also acknowlege that there is actually a Damien Rice community out there that has existed for many years. Calling it "appaling" isn't going to make you too many friends.

Maybe in Ireland documenting recording equipments isn't deemed as important. It's not a question of being "behind". Different strokes for different folks and such. Tolerance goes a long way, no matter what country you are in.

Geoff isn't selling those recordings. I don't know anybody *selling* Irish independent music. It's a trading list. He's also spent a lot of time making all those inserts and they are appreciated in several communities, including the Frames one. (The date for the Lobby show was shown on the page I linked to, if you look again.)

I don't know why you would have difficulties recording Damien's shows. He is personally not against it (this has been discussed elsewhere here).

I don't know about others here, but I try to catch those online (webcast recording) or some friendly Irish soul will record it (method unknown) and email me an MP3 like 3 minutes after the show is over. I have a gigantic collection of Irish music acquired that way, but I guess you'll never get to see it on your sever, because for the life of me I couldn't tell you it's source (like the Petsound sessions I uploaded).

In short, if you want to do it *your* way, you are going to miss out and so will the people you want to share the music with. Some kind of compromise seems in order.

Angela


I) Someone on this page told me Irish music fans are content to buy bootlegs in stores and download MP3s. This is not an issue of a US Standard or anything, its an issue of:

A) Quality. Text files ensure that you know what you are listening to and serve as a record for the future of what you are listening to. They alleviate confusion, and are necessary in reconstructing a band's history. When little teases played today become full songs released in 2007, to understand their meaning you need more than the venue it was originally played at.

B) Hindering Taping.
1)When I tried to get approval to tape Damien in May, his sound engineer emailed me saying I could not. I spoke to Damien at the show and he okayed it, but there is no taping policy. Without such a policy to show security, it is often very difficult to get into a show. (Even with such a policy there is often difficulty.) Additionally, without such a formal policy we cannot get him listed on archive sites like Etree.org, which will increase popularity among the recording culture, and besides being good for the band, will make taping and trading more prevalent and thus easier for us.
2) When I spoke to Damien about taping, he was very concerned with quality. He told me he would not allow SBDs because they sound hollow, and that he would not allow people to record with junky equipment. There is no difference between recording with junky equipment, or recording with a good rig and then converting it to a lossy low quality format.

II) This isn't an issue of compromise. Your argument is analogous to saying cassettes are easier, so we don't want to use cds. This is technological fact. Everytime you convert an mp3, beginning with the first encoding, it chops off the sound and degrades the quality of the recording. You are literally losing part of the song, at an exponential rate with each conversion.

III) Im sure Im not making friends. But hat Im told, that purchasing live recordings is acceptable in Ireland, is absolutely appalling.

There are still people in the US who trade cassettes, and trade with MP3s. They chose to stay behind the standard. U2 communities are still far behind the standard as far as live recordings. David Gray, partially by virtue of picking up the DMB fanbase, broke out of the Irish Music Scene and has a solid digital trading base. (See: the Sorrowful Moon site, or the Yahoo Group.)

For all the reasons above, Im trying to get the Damien trading scene headed in the right direction before it gets too big to move.


FYI: Go read the Etree faqs to get more information on these issues: http://etree.org/faq_full.html

PS: I wasn't insinuating Geoff was selling them, but that they all seem organized in a way that led me to think they are regularly sold in record shops.Edited by: Mario
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Old 09-29-2003, 04:02 PM   #18
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Mario most of Ireland is stuck on a dial up thanks to our antiquated land line telcoms system. As a result MP3 is basically the only viable way to transfer files in a reasonable speed.

I'm having trouble logging in:

Username = Damien
PW = Rice

whats wrong, it isn't a case sensitivity problem?
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Old 09-29-2003, 04:15 PM   #19
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Are you trying to log into the site using Internet Explorer? If you are it might be something to do with a firewall or your settings. Best way to access an ftp site is with an ftp program. There's lots of them out there but an easy one to use is WS FTP (Limited edition is free, you have to pay for the full version). You can download it from


http://download.com.com/3000-2160-1572132.html
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Old 09-29-2003, 04:18 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario
I) Someone on this page told me Irish music fans are content to buy bootlegs in stores and download MP3s.
Bootlegs should never be sold, of course, but in reality, for those who cannot download music and do not trade eBay or the local record store is often the only way to get a bootleg. I guess soon our beloved Clear Channel will be selling bootlegs at gigs anyway, making away with all that "nonsense".

Most people are content downloading MP3's. That's just a fact. I'm a mod of an ftp (since it's illegal I'm not going to say what artist, but he's popular on this board) and the way we handle it is to take anything people upload and keep all versions, unless they are obvious duplicates. That's what I meant at compromise - it seems to work rather well. You could keep a separate SHN folder.

I think most European countries do no longer have free local phone calls and, with the exception of a few northern European countries, internet proliferation isn't at the level it is here. I don't think those fans should be shut out and MP3's serve them well.

Have a look at this discussion (if you have the time): it's Raidar trying to do what you want to do for Norewgian cult band Madrugada: ]bootleg trading via MP3 Same discussion, basically and you'll see that and why even hardcore fans are often OK with MP3's.

So, what I'm trying to say is that this is a reality that should be taken into account IMHO, though I understand very well what it is you are trying to do.

Quote:
When I tried to get approval to tape Damien in May, his sound engineer emailed me saying I could not. I spoke to Damien at the show and he okayed it, but there is no taping policy.
I seem to remember his management is against recording, but Damien himself isn't. Maybe that's why there is no policy?

Quote:
There is no difference between recording with junky equipment, or recording with a good rig and then converting it to a lossy low quality format.
I will have a look at the etree.org stuff (I'm not familar with it), thanks.
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Old 09-29-2003, 05:03 PM   #21
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1) EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS:

http://www.geocities.com/cfr707/mp3.htm

If you don't want to read, just look at the three charts. This was posted in the discussion Angela sent me to.


2) Read that discussion, again, depressing. There was a great point in there, though, about (paraphrasing now) this sense of entitlement.

Some of us are too young to understand what a mailing list is. This is shocking, but mailing lists used to be real mail. And trading used to actually involve posting your trading list to a mailing list, and then waiting for responses through the mail. Then you made copies, in real time, with a two deck cassette player. It used to take weeks before shows were widely circulated. To say that we can't wait three days for a trade or a week for a B+P is ridiculous.

3) I have another issue I forgot to include in the last post. I can tell you right now that US tapers will not take kindly to ever finding one of their shows in MP3. Read the text files for the two shn shows I have on the server; they explicitly request their work not be encoded into ANY lossy format. And I have heard discussion around here about the Blowers Daughter II from Philly being posted as an MP3.

4) I want you to look at this site: onesweetworld.org Europeans don't seem to know who the Dave Matthews Band is, but they're the band on the technological forefront of taping, and the last 500 or so consecutive shows have been taped dating back to I believe 2000, through a collaborative community effort. But thats not the point of the link. Look at what they are doing to educate those outside the DMB trading community. Again, while Damien's fanbase is still small, we could do something like that.
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Old 09-29-2003, 06:14 PM   #22
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Ack, I don't know where to begin on this one. I know where Mario is coming from completely, but can understand where Anegela is coming from also.

1/ In a way yes, barring the fact that minidiscs weren't around then.
I'm guessing you haven't heard many Irish recorded Damien shows? You'll know by the sound quality of most that very few spend money on rigs. I've actually yet to see a fan set up a rig at any gig I've attended here. If someone here says, "I'm going to tape a show", it usually means they're bringing the mic that came with their computer and a minidisc recorder in their pocket. That's the truth I'm afraid. There are thankfully one or two out there now using better equiptment, but the standard is pretty low.

3/I'll check that one (it's hard to find setlists without a dedicated setlist archive, or people providing details with the shows)

4/ I wouldn't say they blatently don't care about the quality, it's just lack of knowledge in the area really (and the above mentioned facts about having slow internet speeds, unable to download shn's).
As regards them buying bootleg recordings. From some people I've talked to, they're unaware they can get these recordings for free and are unsure about how to go about it.

--next post--
2/ I think you misread Geoff's site. He's not selling any shows and the majority aren't mp3. I know he'd do anything to get lossless copies of all shows, so you don't need to worry about him [img]smileys/smiley1.gif[/img]

3/Info is pretty much non-existant apart from the date. Frustrating, isn't it? [img]smileys/smiley6.gif[/img]

------

Angela, don't take Mario's comments in the wrong vain. I know where he's coming from and the standard of most Irish recordings is really frustrating when you are into a band/artist so much, but used to much clearer recordings from other artists. I don't know if that's understandable to everyone.

There's several shops in Dublin openly selling bootlegs. I laughed out loud in one when I saw the U2 Sept01 show onsale for FOURTY euro. I couldn't believe it. They even stuck an 'import' sticker on it, which was perhaps attempting to jusify the price. Yeh, it must have cost a lot to post it from someone's CD burner in England.

I would definitely call Ireland behind in terms of recording live shows. Both the equiptment used and the attitudes of management to the concept. I'm only comparing this to the US though.

It's great that Damien has no problem with recording, but unfortunately venue security/engineers often do, regardless. If a band has written up a recording policy, it's very easy to show to anyone who questions what you're doing. Neither Damien nor The Frames have one and it can prevent recordings.

I'm happy to record any radio shows I'm made aware of through my ntl digital stb. I can get far better recordings than anything I've attempted from a standard fm signal. Completely static and hissless without having to clean them up afterwards. I'll always offer these recordings out to anyone who wants them on CD.

-----------------------

Anyway, what I really want to say is that both ideals can exist.
Mario, I think a Damien FTP with lossless shows is vital now and definitely the right way forward. At the same time, Angela is right about many people being satisfied with mp3s. I think all we can do is live with that, but still try to attempt to tell them how they can get better quality shows. Some will be happy to know, others won't care and they're perfectly entitled to obviously.

I think when many of the newer singer/songwriters broke, the current US standard of trading was already out and so shows were of high quality and spread in lossless ways.
The differene with Damien is that so many people out there were already happy downloading mp3 shows and getting lesser quality recordings. That set the standard and it's difficult to change it. They're completely satisfied and this attempt to change how they get shows seems long-winded and complicated compared to their usual method.


I'm not very good at writing, so I'm probably not making my points very clear. Mario, you're doing a fantastic thing and please continue your efforts. I'll help you in any way possible. I'll have wireless broadband in a few weeks and will help you upload a few more shows. Angela, that's perfectly fine you're ok with all the mp3 shows. If you think they sound fine, I see no reason why you should want higher quality ones. Please try and understand what Mario is trying though, which will explain the frustration, and that it wasn't a personal attack on anyone.
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Old 09-29-2003, 07:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scon
Angela, that's perfectly fine you're ok with all the mp3 shows. If you think they sound fine, I see no reason why you should want higher quality ones. Please try and understand what Mario is trying though, which will explain the frustration, and that it wasn't a personal attack on anyone.
I actually am the first person who will try anything to get a decent recording. I've on occasion worked patiently for (many) months to get a sound board from a producer directly rather than an audience copy.

I also implore those who burn me their shows to *not* go from MD -> MP3. ("Oh, but I compensate for that!". Oh, but I don't have enough discs to send you wave files!")

BUT....realistically (just my personal opinion) some of my favorite live recordings are crappy quality: Mark Geary somewhere over there coming through the static. Emmett Tinley sourced from VHS. And I have some better quality recordings (by people proud of their recordings), but it was a less than memorable gig and then the quality means nothing to me.

It's all about the music, isn't it? And I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

It's a bit a ideal vs. reality discussion, the whole thing.

I think Mario's idea is great, but just because he has those standards it doesn't mean he has to slag those wonderful people who have pulled out their mini disc recorders at the Roisin [img]smileys/smiley3.gif[/img] to let me sing along to Glen's latest outpourings. [img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img]

The question is, how do you thus best implement the whole thing! There should then also be a web page you can esnd people to, so they learn how to get Damo's recordings, links to SHN software etc.
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Old 09-29-2003, 08:47 PM   #24
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hm.


*wishes sheunderstood what everyone was talking about*..
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Old 09-29-2003, 09:36 PM   #25
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hey thanks a lot. i'm in the process of setting up an FTP for other singer/songwriter music (and also live jazz). will keep the board posted.


M
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Old 09-29-2003, 09:48 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scon
I'm happy to record any radio shows I'm made aware of through my ntl digital stb.
The day will come you will regret you mentioened this. [img]smileys/smiley15.gif[/img]

Ha, ha. Just kidding [img]smileys/smiley31.gif[/img] *clutches her crappy internet Damien Dempsey Mystery Train mono recording*
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Old 09-29-2003, 10:27 PM   #27
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I think I'll chime in with my .02 on this. Here is my experience trying to tape Damien for a couple of shows this tour.
I emailed his management(Ben) as well as his tour manager(Fiona) and both were ok with taping his shows as long as I wasn't going to sell them. No problem there, I think people who do that are simply sh*te.
So I go to the TLA, bring a clamp in because I heard before hand the venue is not hip on stands. I and another taper Pat(who put the TLA show out to the FTP) clamped to the rail and no one hassled either one of us that evening. Unfortuantely for me but I had a crap 1/8" plug so one channel is buzz. Oh well..
I pick up a new cable and make the trek up to Toronto(ok, I used to see the Dead a lot so driving long distances is no big deal--haha). Get to El Mocambo, have no problem bringing a mic stand in as the venue is very taper friendly. Set my stuff up next to the board because the show is sold out and I don't want to be obtrusive to others trying to enjoy their show. Trust me, next to the board was the last place I wanted to be considering it was back in the left hand pocket from the stage with low ceilings and pillars in front. Anyway, Jonathan shows up at the board and I ask him if my crap is in the way. He says no and we start shooting the sh*t about the night before. Well, something catches his attention, he looks over in the corner, disappears, and comes back a few minutes later and tells me to take it all down. He was just the messenger that night. In fact, I really enjoyed chatting with him and he offered to store my stuff with his equipment so I wouldn't have to make the long walk back to the car right before the show. He apologized a bunch of times and I said no problem and enjoyed the show. I did though get some really weird looks from other people in that whole group like I had done something terribly wrong. Go figure.. So here are my observations for anyone who plans on taping his show.

-- "Ok with taping" means entirely two different things when it comes to how American bands like the Phish, ABB, and DMB view it and how acts abroad like Damien, Radiohead, and David Gray see it. If you want to know more go check out an interesting site: Bands That Allow Taping

-- I have a hard time believing the concern over low quality recordings making it out there. I understand the theory because it makes sense. If someone's first introduction to a particular artist is through a terrible sounding recording, than yeh, that's a valid point. I recently purchased a pair of neumann km140's so I can record some stuff for steel string guitar. Some of my favorite sounding solo fingerstyle steel string cd's are with the neumann km100 series. My rig is a pair of KM140>MP2>M1. This is a rig that has pulled off some great sounding shows in the past by tapers. I don't think this was the issue that night and might of been exactly the opposite.

-- So I guess in order to tape a show of Damien's you better stealth it. They won't kick your ass out if they see you with mics on your body somewhere but don't plan on a taping section or setting up stands anytime in the near future. I don't get it but I don't make the rules so..

I can conclude two reasons why this is the problem:
1. Bootlegs. I hate when people ask me for a bootleg. To me, the word bootleg conjures up a live cd for sale. I love the word recording.. haha.. I read a great article a little while ago. Pat Metheny was touring Japan and walked into a record store and saw a bunch of live bootlegs on the shelf of him. He grabbed all of them and walked out the door without paying a cent. The owners of the record store couldn't do a thing and they knew it. Maybe Damien or the Frames should pay a visit to their local cd shop! The only live cd of Damien's on Ebay is the Union Chapel cd that people got for free. Right now the going rate is $25, much more than the price of "O". That might piss me off if I was Damien, especially if I didn't see a penny of that transaction. Go try to sell a copy of a live Phish show up on Ebay and see what happens.

2. The Label. It seems labels have many artist by the nuts. I don't think many of them have the luxury of making a public policy of allowing taping.

I actually thought this thread was much more interesting than a lot and I think Mario and Scon are right on about the future of trading for Damien, period. If you want to spread music you have to bring up to a standard like the rest. Mario, if someone doesn't throw up a .shn of the Union Chapel show(thanks Moira for sending me a copy!) I'll be happy to in the next couple weeks once I rebuild my system. I plan on taping a show or two in Decemeber so if they come out ok I'll throw .shn's up as well.

I do have to say though unfortunately there are live bootlegs of shows in Anerican stores as well. There was a thread a few days ago on Damien's site where some chick saw a show in Nashville or somewhere and posted she will pay top dollar for a bootleg of it. I think it doesn't come down to a geographical problem as much as it's just people want what they want when they want it and go fuc* anyone else attitude..
Cheers







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Old 09-29-2003, 11:13 PM   #28
Mario
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Alright, here's the deal, maybe I came off stronger than I intended and faded from the point.


Y'all want/need/etc. to use MP3s, fine. However:

1) Don't expect everything in MP3. And don't convert things to MP3 that are specifically not to be recorded to MP3.

2) Tapers want to encode to MP3, fine, but PLEASE put out a lossless version too.

3) Tapers PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make an info file. Its very easy, very standard format, and makes a huge difference for the rest of us.


Okay?
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Old 09-29-2003, 11:16 PM   #29
grovesa16
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I am that horrible, horrible person who "would pay top dollar" for a tape of the Nashville show. I know I shouldn't have to justify myself to people, but I am very intrigued by this topic. I myself work in the music business for a major label recording artist, so I am surrounded by music and the crappy, dirty business on a daily basis. I wouldn't classify myself as a casual listener or fan, but I am pretty clueless on the whole taping thing. It seems to be a very niche area that surrounds jam bands, and that is fine. Don't get me wrong, I am on your side. I believe that taping or anything of that nature can do nothing but help and promote an artist. I think it is great that people put all of this effort into taping shows and making sure that there is no loss of quality in the recording. But does the causual listener really care? Probably not. The casual listener is going to hear the song in their car or on their $50 computer speakers and a little loss in compression isn't going to matter. But what matters is that listener connecting with new material that they might not be aware of or reliving the amazing moments from the artists last show. The casual listener also does not want to have to go through the effort off a massive download and encoding of shns to wavs either. I tried to do it a few months back (on a friend's pc since the format doesn't seem to be too mac friendly) and after letting the show download overnight it still was only 3/4 done. Who wants to wait? We live in a world of instant gratification.

So I'm sorry if my comments on paying for a bootleg offended those in the taping world. My offer of money was mainly to compensate the person who spent the money on the equipment and time and effort into putting something like that together. It has nothing to do with "putting a price on art". I have 4 copies of "O" and have seen Damien 4 times in the last year, including bringing 10 friends to the last gig, so I have done my fair share on supporting the art. I just wanted something to remember the gig by. I'm happy to get in on this discussion though, to learn about what goes on in the taping world. Thanks for all the insight.
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Old 09-29-2003, 11:19 PM   #30
Angela
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Well, yeah, but that doesn't solve the problem of how to get bootlegs to the majority of people who will never hear about the ftp (unless well advertised), have never heard of the SHN format and can't afford spending 4 cents/minute while downloading with a 56k modem.

Maybe in parallel to the ftp efforts someone should use the internet usegroups (is there one set up for Damien?) to start organizing a tape tree.

The more people know that it's easy to get recordings for free the better it's going to work. (Evidenced by the recent effort of someone to sell a Jeff Buckley DVD set on alt.music.jeff-buckley.)
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