Katrina slams into gulf coast

[cneill]

the people of New Orleans are experiencing a history-making natural disaster: the huge and powerful category 5 Hurricane Katrina. The news networks are saying that the city could be flooded by 12+ feet of water. They've already had winds up to 160-165 mph (?kph?).

The mayor said: "this is the storm New Orleans has feared these many years.Making matters worse, at least 100,000 people in the city lack the transportation to get out of town. "

"The only dangerous hurricanes so far are the ones we've been drinking," said Fred Wilson of San Francisco

"I know they're saying `Get out of town,' but I don't have any way to get out," said Hattie Johns, 74. "If you don't have no money, you can't go."

This looks pretty bad

Here's a current map of the hurricane (at the bottom of the page) http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx

Any N.O. eskimos out there?

[PenguinBoy]

it was downgraded to a category 3, since then, a bit weaker but still aparently to have been taken seriously


"In Baton Rouge, officials said three people from a New Orleans nursing home had died during their evacuation to a Baton Rouge church. They said they were among nearly two dozen people from the home who were on a bus stuck in traffic for hours during the 125km trip."

it's likely that they were kinda at the end of their tethers anyway.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,16431926-2,00.html

[Rovena]

Well, Katrina passed by South Florida as a category 1 hurricane, which was enough to leave more than 1.5 million people without electricity, including myself, and to break and uproot literaly hundreds and hundreds of trees (my neighboor's tree fell on my garage)...and sadly it left behind five or six casualities and three missing people...
I guess one can imagine what effects Katrina will have in New Orleans, after making landfall as a category 4 hurricane...

[cneill]

yeah, my news was from this morning (est), so I guess it wasn't quite as bad as the media initially thought (surprise surprise) but still devastating, hitting land at category 4 and farther north and northeast at category 3 as mentioned above.

[dramaking]

i'm sorry to hear this rovena! but i'm glad that you are okay!

[gomezxico]

Originally Posted by dramaking

i'm sorry to hear this rovena! but i'm glad that you are okay!

same here.

i saw tape earlier of people taking advantage of the situation to steal. it's quite bad cause people taking toiletpaper and diapers from damaged stores. here in california it's hot and I strongly dislike heat but i prefer it to what is going on down there at the moment. i've been finding facts on the areas the hurricane has hit and it's quite disturbing to hear about NO going under, particularly because of global warming, and now katrina.

[cneill]

some pics

several pages of pics here
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1473113/posts

man moons Katrina
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...0pics/moon.jpg

[Hendrik]

Was there really a hurricane warning one or two weeks ago or was that just an invention of the media?

[GlttrGrrl]

There was a hurricane warning last week before Katrina hit the first time, but warnings don't help poor people get out. If you have no car or no money for gas, you can't get very far. Most of the people stuck in New Orleans are the poorest in the city. Something like 20% of the people didn't evacuate, mostly because they couldn't afford to. The situation is New Orleans is really bad, and they're trying to evacuate the entire city now so that they can get to recovery work. Fortunately, my only friend down there evacuated to Northern Louisiana, but he can't go home for two or three months, and he's afraid of what he'll be going back to. It makes me so sad...I love New Orleans.

[Wheels]

Why did the government not get people out on buses/trucks??? It was a mandatory exacuation...

[PenguinBoy]

because the army are busy killing people - excuse me for that political outburst.

i suppose that many people would have needed loads of transport. And the government themselves wouldn't be able to accommedate all of them, which means they would still have had to leave people behind

[Cali]

the government should've done so much more. we'd been hearing how bad the hurricane was gonna be, but i don't think anybody thought it was gonna be so devastating. i read new orleans will be entirely evacuated, i assume other cities will to.

i also read that the police is not really doing anything about the looting. people are actually stealing from food, water and even BOATS

[cneill]

Despite the fact that many people didn't have the means to get out, many didn't think it would be so bad, despite the weather reports. People down there don't always trust the weather reports. They have a history of blowing hurricane threats out of proportion concerning New Orleans.

I lived there for a few years of high school and I remember the first hurricane season we were there, the weather people predicted a hurricane to hit directly and do quite a lot of damage (I don't remember the name or the category, and I'm too lazy to look it up right now). My father became very nervous and we boarded up all the windows and bought stockpiles of water and canned food, but we were the only family in the neighborhood to do so. We were the newcomers. Everyone else just brushed it off and said, ah well, it won't be bad, if it even hits at all (despite the weather reports). Sure enough the hurricane redirected and completely missed us. We got a little rain and some light wind, and then we took down all the boards from the windows while our neighbors chuckled. This happens most seasons in N.O. I don't think most people really thought it would be this bad. It's kinda a different mindset down there.

Oh, and thanks Emmett for putting the Red Cross link up on the front page.

[Rovena]

Originally Posted by cneill

Despite the fact that many people didn't have the means to get out, many didn't think it would be so bad, despite the weather reports. People down there don't always trust the weather reports. They have a history of blowing hurricane threats out of proportion concerning New Orleans.

Well, here in Florida every year there are a few hurricanes that pass by us and eventually hit us. Even though people have seen very closely what kind of damage hurricanes can cause, such as Andrews in 1992, many of them still don't take them very seriously.
And I know that in New Orleans the hurricane season is not as active as the hurricane season here in Florida, and that the last major hurricane directly to hit New Orleans was Camille (please, correct if I'm wrong) in 1969, which means that thousands and thousand of people from there had never experienced the effects of a major hurricane, thus being somehow uncouncious of actual destructive power of one...

[dizzy cannon]

i think what is most annoying is the fact that when the hurricane was upgraded to 5 the national guard wasnt activated and still now they arent fully deployed there...

stuff like that makes me really irritated it seems that the u.s. will jump to help everyone else but when it comes to our own crisis the president will just fly over and simply say its devastating...

i dont feel like ranting anymore i just get so mad when i think about it

[cneill]

here's an interactive satellite picture of New Orleans

http://hosted.ap.org/specials/intera...ite/index.html

[Hendrik]

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/inte...372715,00.html

[Gatsby]

there was a news report on itv where a man (cant remember his name) was in the middle of the wreckage

he said he's worked in africa for years and that he has seen better relief aids in africa then he has in the richest country in the world

its shocking how the people are being left to die and still no relief
while the soldiers are in iraq, fighting a war they wont be winning

[Rovena]

Well, just now I was watching CNN and it's said that the number of deaths in Louisiana will definitely be in the thousands, and that in Mississippi it will be in the hundreds...

[cneill]

The mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin, apparently has gotten pretty angry with the slow and inadequate response to the situation. Here's a radio interview

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nag...ipt/index.html

Here are some excerpts from the interview linked above

Nagin: But we called for martial law when we realized that the looting was getting out of control. And we redirected all of our police officers back to patrolling the streets. They were dead-tired from saving people, but they worked all night because we thought this thing was going to blow wide open last night. And so we redirected all of our resources, and we hold it under check.

I'm not sure if we can do that another night with the current resources.

And I am telling you right now: They're showing all these reports of people looting and doing all that weird stuff, and they are doing that, but people are desperate and they're trying to find food and water, the majority of them.

Now you got some knuckleheads out there, and they are taking advantage of this lawless -- this situation where, you know, we can't really control it, and they're doing some awful, awful things. But that's a small majority of the people. Most people are looking to try and survive.

And one of the things people -- nobody's talked about this. Drugs flowed in and out of New Orleans and the surrounding metropolitan area so freely it was scary to me, and that's why we were having the escalation in murders. People don't want to talk about this, but I'm going to talk about it.

You have drug addicts that are now walking around this city looking for a fix, and that's the reason why they were breaking in hospitals and drugstores. They're looking for something to take the edge off of their jones, if you will.

And right now, they don't have anything to take the edge off. And they've probably found guns. So what you're seeing is drug-starving crazy addicts, drug addicts, that are wrecking havoc. And we don't have the manpower to adequately deal with it. We can only target certain sections of the city and form a perimeter around them and hope to God that we're not overrun.



Nagin: And I'll tell you, man, I'm probably going get in a whole bunch of trouble. I'm probably going to get in so much trouble it ain't even funny. You probably won't even want to deal with me after this interview is over.

WWL: You and I will be in the funny place together.

NAGIN: But we authorized $8 billion to go to Iraq lickety-quick. After 9/11, we gave the president unprecedented powers lickety-quick to take care of New York and other places.

Now, you mean to tell me that a place where most of your oil is coming through, a place that is so unique when you mention New Orleans anywhere around the world, everybody's eyes light up -- you mean to tell me that a place where you probably have thousands of people that have died and thousands more that are dying every day, that we can't figure out a way to authorize the resources that we need? Come on, man.

You know, I'm not one of those drug addicts. I am thinking very clearly.

And I don't know whose problem it is. I don't know whether it's the governor's problem. I don't know whether it's the president's problem, but somebody needs to get their ass on a plane and sit down, the two of them, and figure this out right now.

[Hendrik]

I've heard the bush arrival situation was faked for TV...disgusting, isn't it. Reminded me of Wag the dog.

[cneill]

where did you hear that? I doubt they faked it. He started in Alabama and worked his way down through Mississippi, then over to New Orleans. Surely he wouldn't attempt to fake it. That would just be too much. I don't think he could get away with that. Besides, where would they find another landscape of hurricane devastation to film? And what would be the motivation for faking it?

[gomezxico]

Originally Posted by cneill

where did you hear that? I doubt they faked it. He started in Alabama and worked his way down through Mississippi, then over to New Orleans. Surely he wouldn't attempt to fake it. That would just be too much. I don't think he could get away with that. Besides, where would they find another landscape of hurricane devastation to film? And what would be the motivation for faking it?

I agree but I think he could have spent more time there--perhaps a day in each state or something along those lines--his trip was just too short and perhaps too late in the game.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by gomezxico

I agree but I think he could have spent more time there--perhaps a day in each state or something along those lines--his trip was just too short and perhaps too late in the game.

Where ever he goes, a Presidential visit requires security: rescue helicopter fly-overs, trucks bringing in critical supplies and water supplies etc., it all has to be suspended.

I for am glad he kept the disruption of relief efforts to a minimum, at the expense of it not looking good on TV.

(I never thought I'd find myself defending Bush - but there you have it! )

[Hendrik]

Originally Posted by cneill

where did you hear that? I doubt they faked it.

No, they really did. It's a sad fact. (but, be honest, is that really surprising, dear americans?)

Some german journalists were madly in anger when Bush arrived in Biloxi. They reported that it was a farce...Bush companions cleared the street and set up a woman with a baby in her arm. Two streets away there were corpses rotting...while only in the richer district everything was cleaned. I mean, what the ****? I could kill the government for doing that, it so pisses me off.

[cneill]

ok, but you do realize the secret service has to clear the street anywhere he goes, right? What I saw on tv didn't necessarily look "clean." He was standing in a street with destruction all around it talking to a woman with her daughter and another man. They were probably screened and checked for security reasons, and the whole street was probably off limits to anyone else, for security reasons. And of course they wouldn't show dead rotting corpses on tv. You can't really do that on U.S. television for censorship reasons. Not even the media shows that. I'm sure the whole visit and meeting with and talking to the people on the street and walking around looking at damage was all somewhat contrived, but the disaster area is very chaotic and the secret service had very little control over the situation, so they had to keep it short and simple - all for security reasons.

I'm not saying that the response was adequate or prompt enough, there's obviously much that all levels of government could've and should've done differently, I'm merely saying that your report that the visit was faked seems a little short sighted. Like Angela said, everything must stop for a presidential visit. It's a sad truth that anywhere the president goes, he's at high risk for danger.

Personally, I would be much more impressed with faster and greater definitive action in the days leading up to the hurricane hitting land and immediately after than with the president strolling around trying to be a politician. It's another sad truth that politics often relies very little on strong action, and more on image and superficial persuasion.

I would like to read that German report if there's an English translation on the web. Do you have a link?

[Blackcanvas]

ha. the joys of local- "small" government. That really saved the day didnt it george.
And despite backlash from anyone, i dont think this thread should be closed, because i think its now time for the world to say once and for all what a miserable piece of fu,ck George W Bush is.

If it was white-middle class texas, would they be saved?

[Cali]

Originally Posted by Hendrik

I've heard the bush arrival situation was faked for TV...disgusting, isn't it. Reminded me of Wag the dog.

it was not. the images showed the mayor of new orleans welcoming bush to louisiana.

[Hendrik]

Originally Posted by cneill

I would like to read that German report if there's an English translation on the web. Do you have a link?

No, sorry, it was a telly thing.
But I do have another link about the racism stuff...

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/inte...373388,00.html

----



News from Flint:

Friday, September 2nd, 2005


Dear Mr. Bush:

Any idea where all our helicopters are? It's Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.

Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren't there to begin with?

Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty. Eleven people died and, as of today, there were still homes without power. That night the weatherman said this storm was on its way to New Orleans. That was Thursday! Did anybody tell you? I know you didn't want to interrupt your vacation and I know how you don't like to get bad news. Plus, you had fundraisers to go to and mothers of dead soldiers to ignore and smear. You sure showed her!

I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?

And don't listen to those who, in the coming days, will reveal how you specifically reduced the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for New Orleans this summer for the third year in a row. You just tell them that even if you hadn't cut the money to fix those levees, there weren't going to be any Army engineers to fix them anyway because you had a much more important construction job for them -- BUILDING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ!

On Day 3, when you finally left your vacation home, I have to say I was moved by how you had your Air Force One pilot descend from the clouds as you flew over New Orleans so you could catch a quick look of the disaster. Hey, I know you couldn't stop and grab a bullhorn and stand on some rubble and act like a commander in chief. Been there done that.

There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you. Just have your people keep pointing that out. Respond to nothing. Even those pesky scientists who predicted this would happen because the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter making a storm like this inevitable. Ignore them and all their global warming Chicken Littles. There is nothing unusual about a hurricane that was so wide it would be like having one F-4 tornado that stretched from New York to Cleveland.

No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this! You hang in there, Mr. Bush. Just try to find a few of our Army helicopters and send them there. Pretend the people of New Orleansand the Gulf Coast are near Tikrit.

Yours,
Michael Moore

MMFlint@aol.com
www.MichaelMoore.com

P.S. That annoying mother, Cindy Sheehan, is no longer at your ranch. She and dozens of other relatives of the Iraqi War dead are now driving across the country, stopping in many cities along the way. Maybe you can catch up with them before they get to DC on September 21st.

At least Sean Penn tried to get an extra award...

[Andrew]

I cant believe you all are using Hurricane Katrina as a reason to go on an anti-Bush rant. None of you really know what you are talking about...I mean do you actually expect their to be immediate relief right after a devestating hurricane? Is it that hard to understand why helicopters were not flying over New Orleans rescuing people the day after Katrina...Helicopters need fuel, a place to land, and a detailed analysis of the area in which they are being dispatched to. The New Orleans airport and surrounding airfields had to be cleared before the helicopters could fly in. The government had to make sure there was an adequate supply of fuel and safe places to land before they send helicopters out to rescue....The roads had to be cleared before supplies and soldiers could move into the city. This takes days to complete. I mean the government was doing all they could under the circumstances. It was not Bush's job to evacuate and make sure everyone left New Orleans...that was the mayor and the govenor's job...Blame them if anyone. Do not believe everything the media tells you, that is just ignorance on your part. I mean everytime I turn on the television I hear the NAACP saying the government is commiting genocide. They are saying if the majority of the people stranded were wealthy and white then there would be no problems evacuating them...anyone who believes that is out of their mind. Its not the government's fault if people can not afford or are not willing to leave an area. They can not just evacuate them immediately because they first have to find a place for them to go. The government has places throughout the south where refugees are being taken. Of course it took a few days to conveince mayors of cities to allow thousands of homeless people to wander into their city to live in their convention centers, sports stadiums, etc. Do not say the government is not doing their part because no one could do a better job under these circumstances. Using this disaster to vent your frustrations about bush is ridiculous and insensitive...He is doing everything he can as is the entirety of the America population. Every major city and even the majority of small towns are sending tons and tons of supplies every hour. The government is funding numerous aid stations for the refugees. I mean if london, dublin, paris, or tokyo had to evacuate an entire city, 60% of which is impoverished, do you really think within a couple of days they would have a place for millions of people to flee. Would the governments of those countries be able to make sure every person received three meals a day...absolutely not, it would take weeks or months...So reevaluate the current situation, observe the details, think profoundly about how hard it is to evacuate a city and then turn right around and feed those same people, and then let everyone know exactly what your big problem is. I understand you all have a problem with bush, but trying to blame this whole thing on him and to say he is doing nothing is absurd.