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Old 06-22-2005, 05:18 AM   #1
Cali
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Default Kidnapped girl 'rescued' by lions

this was on the news today. a 12-year old girl was kidnapped by 3 men and lions ended up rescuing her from her captors. i think it's amazing; wild animals end up being more 'human' than actual humans

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A pride of lions has rescued a girl from her kidnappers in rural south-west Ethiopia, according to police.


A 12-year-old girl was snatched by four men on her way home from school early in June.

A week later, kidnappers were moving her with police in pursuit when three lions encountered the group and chased the men off, local police said.

The lions stayed with the girl without harming her, before departing as police searching for her came near.

Sergeant Wondmu Wedaj told the media from Bita Genet, some 560 kilometres (348 miles) south-west of the capital, Addis Ababa, that they found the girl alive but shocked and terrified.

'Gift'

"They stood guard until we found her and then they just left her like a gift and went back into the forest," the policeman said.



The girl told the police she had been beaten by her kidnappers, but no harm was done to her by the lions.

An Ethiopian wildlife expert said the lions may have spared the girl because her crying may have sounded like the mewing sound from a lion cub.

"Everyone thinks this is some kind of miracle, because normally the lions would attack people," Sergeant Wondimu added.

Four men have been caught by police. The United Nations estimates abductions, which lead to marriage, are rife in rural areas where the majority of Ethiopians live.
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Old 06-22-2005, 09:35 AM   #2
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Go Lions!
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:12 PM   #3
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that is so odd. Odd but cool. I think ill go find me a lion to befriend. Then i can happily stroll through town at night safe in the knowledge that if anything should happen to me, my lion will look after me. Its like the lion king with Timon and Pumba!!!
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Old 06-22-2005, 03:15 PM
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Old 06-22-2005, 03:35 PM   #4
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It hardly proves animals have a conscience!!! What you think the lions 'felt bad' about the kidnapping, had a chat and then decided to intervene!!!
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Old 06-22-2005, 04:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juzzza
It hardly proves animals have a conscience!!! What you think the lions 'felt bad' about the kidnapping, had a chat and then decided to intervene!!!
Lion 1: "You know what really annoys me? Kidnappers!"

Lion 2: "Oh, God yeah, they get on my nerves, they do..."

Lion 1: "You know, if I ever see a bunch of kidnappers running past, I'd... I'd..."

Lion 2: "Blimey! Look over there!"




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Old 06-22-2005, 04:53 PM   #6
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Lion 1: You know what I've been thinking lately?

Lion 2: What?

Lion 1: It must be terrible being an antelope...

Lion 2: What!?!

Lion 1: Think about it, you're out on the serengeti, chewing on some grass minding your own business, when out of nowhere... your kid is snatched away by us... and eaten.

Lion 2: Wow... that's deep, Leo... what, you getting a conscience?

Lion 1: Maybe... I'm just saying, before you judge something, try walking a day in its shoes, you know?

Lion 2: Hey look over there... a bunch of humans are dragging a human cub away... you think they're gonna eat it?

Lion 1: I'm not sure... but I'm not gonna sit here and let it happen... my conscience simply won't allow it!
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Old 06-22-2005, 05:03 PM   #7
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Leo the lion,eh?! why not Lucy or Lyla, huh?! could start off another debate- but am only messin.
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Old 06-22-2005, 06:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juzzza
Lion 1: I'm not sure... but I'm not gonna sit here and let it happen... my conscience simply won't allow it!
Antelope 1: "If you ask me, those lions are just bloody hypocrites..."



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Old 06-22-2005, 07:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juzzza
It hardly proves animals have a conscience!!! What you think the lions 'felt bad' about the kidnapping, had a chat and then decided to intervene!!!
i agree. it doesnt prove they have a conscience. of course id like to see proof you have one. or anyone else for that matter. usually people cite actions as proof. actions like these. i think assuming just cause you cant communicate with something means it is inferior or lacking a conscience is quite closeminded.

replace the lion in that story with a person that was incapable of direct communication. a foreigner perhaps that chased some group off and kept that girl safe and then just up and walked off once authorities got there. without communicating with that person as to why they did it most people would assume that they did out of a sense of right and wrong.

so many people seem to me get insulted by the mere idea that animals are like us. but maybe they should remind themselves that they themselves are animals.

scoff all you want. people have been for eons when confronted with ideas that step outside their long held beliefs. like say that the sun does not revolve around the earth. or that the earth is flat. doesnt bother me a bit. at one time einstein and newton both were considered quacks. and no im in no way comparing myself to them, im saying that their ideas were laughed at....until later they proved quite correct.

sometimes what people regard as obvious end up being very wrong.

but it did make for some entertaining conversations between lions.

jason


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Old 06-23-2005, 09:21 AM   #10
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Of course the flaw in your argument, is that even if the person was incabable of communication, we have a reference point... I.E. they are human, so it is likely that they think and feel the same way as most other humans (not all)... even FOREIGNERS! ha ha ha

Lions, will kill the cubs from another male before mating with the mother... they kill and eat animals every single day and quite often, will kill people too... but you're right, that day they just saw an injustice and decided to help.

Many scientists believe that our ability to kill is what remains of our animal instincts... along with the need to procreate and provide immortality to our genes... but, our thought processes have evolved far beyond kill, eat, f**k, survive, although they are still strong driving forces... to suggest that a lion or any other animal can't feel empathy would be silly, but to compare them to a foreigner or a mute!

Oooooooooooookay!
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Old 06-23-2005, 10:00 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juzzza
Many scientists believe that our ability to kill is what remains of our animal instincts... along with the need to procreate and provide immortality to our genes... but, our thought processes have evolved far beyond kill, eat, f**k, survive, although they are still strong driving forces... to suggest that a lion or any other animal can't feel empathy would be silly, but to compare them to a foreigner or a mute!

Oooooooooooookay!
Maybe our lives are just very highly evolved mating rituals, ur looks maybe have quite a part of it, but maybe morals are just a new way to compete. the more moral u are, the more attractive you are and the more likely u are to get some so maybe we still are "kill, eat, f**k, surviving" machines.

I'm thinking most animals will instinctively stick up for someone being abused, even if in another situation they'd gobble it up. And that's probably the basis for our perception of "morals".

Par example, if u saw a baby calf screaming whilee being trampled by bulls. You would most probably be moved instinctively before thinking over the moral situation. And if you could intervien u probably would and that would be completely based on instinct. But that doesn't mean that a few months later u won't be eating burgers made from the same lamb. (mmmm burger).

There must be a natural sense of "morals", or instinct to protect inocent etc. Otherwise the whole of nature would just just kill eachother for the sheer fun of it. It's just something which has evolved to to stop nature from destroying itself.

Ability to comunicate our ideas is perhaps the only thing which makes us think that we're so much different from these other animals.
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Old 06-23-2005, 10:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinBoy

I'm thinking most animals will instinctively stick up for someone being abused, even if in another situation they'd gobble it up. And that's probably the basis for our perception of "morals".

There must be a natural sense of "morals", or instinct to protect inocent etc. Otherwise the whole of nature would just just kill eachother for the sheer fun of it. It's just something which has evolved to to stop nature from destroying itself.
Um....what about survival of the fittest and all that? If you can't fend for yourself...YOU DIE!! People tend to gloss over the fact that for every event like the one detailed above, 10 people are bitten by sharks, mauled by bears, beaten up by penguins etc (It could happen!). Not that either conclusively proves anything...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonAVO

sometimes what people regard as obvious end up being very wrong.
"Sometimes" being the key word there....it swings the other way as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonAVO
There is not the slightest indication that nuclear energy will ever be obtainable. It would mean that the atom would have to be shattered at will.
Albert Einstein, 1932

No matter what happens, the U.S. Navy is not going to be caught napping.
U.S. Secretary of Navy, December 4, 1941

I think there's a world market for about five computers.
Thomas J. Watson, chairman of the board of IBM.

We don't like their sound. Groups of guitars are on the way out.
Decca executive, 1962, after turning down the Beatles.

Brilliant. Here's some more:

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977

"The concept is interesting and well-formed, but in order to earn better than a 'C', the idea must be feasible."
- A Yale University management professor in response to student Fred Smith's paper proposing reliable overnight delivery service (Smith went on to found Federal Express Corp.)

"Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?"
- H. M. Warner founder of Warner Brothers, in 1927

"Everything that can be invented has been invented."
- Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899


Anyway gotta go, so I'll leave you with this extract from Hitchhikers Guide....

"On the planet earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much - the wheel, New York, wars and so on - while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man - for precisely the same reasons."

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Old 06-23-2005, 12:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinBoy

Par example, if u saw a baby calf screaming whilee being trampled by bulls. You would most probably be moved instinctively before thinking over the moral situation. And if you could intervien u probably would and that would be completely based on instinct. But that doesn't mean that a few months later u won't be eating burgers made from the same lamb. (mmmm burger).

There must be a natural sense of "morals", or instinct to protect inocent etc. Otherwise the whole of nature would just just kill eachother for the sheer fun of it. It's just something which has evolved to to stop nature from destroying itself.
I would say 99 times out of 100, if a lion saw a calf (no need to prefix 'baby' before calf... we know what a calf is! Unless you can get adult calfs?) it would simply wait for the bulls to bugger off and then it would eat the calf and would be too rude to even thank the bulls for providing the free lunch. You guys still seem to be using human examples to illustrate how animals have morals or ethics! And even a vegetarian animal like say a fluffy bunny, couldn't give two sh*ts about the calf... it's too busy looking for either food, or its next hump to care about a screaming calf.

And as it's a calf... I.E a baby cow, I doubt I'd be eating lamb burgers from the same individual...
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Old 06-23-2005, 01:36 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Juzzza
I would say 99 times out of 100, if a lion saw a calf (no need to prefix 'baby' before calf... we know what a calf is! Unless you can get adult calfs?) it would simply wait for the bulls to bugger off and then it would eat the calf and would be too rude to even thank the bulls for providing the free lunch. You guys still seem to be using human examples to illustrate how animals have morals or ethics! And even a vegetarian animal like say a fluffy bunny, couldn't give two sh*ts about the calf... it's too busy looking for either food, or its next hump to care about a screaming calf.

And as it's a calf... I.E a baby cow, I doubt I'd be eating lamb burgers from the same individual...
lol, Aha! in my analogy u were perhaps a Farmer (and thus would eat some of ur own meat) not a lion. and i was trying to illustrate how ur response to such a thing was instinctive rather than a morally thought-out thing.

and i was using that as a comparison with the whole lion situation, when they saved a girl(calf) from those kidknapper dudes(bulls). wheras infact the lions would have eaten her up if she'd been alone and they were hungry(burger) but at that point they instinctively saved the girl.

it's exactly the same situation

and much apologies for my misuse of prefixes. and yes, a beef burger. u know whatamean.
Human's don't have morals it's just a combination of instinct, and showing off to the opposite sex. if it wasn't true then the morals in different secluded societies would be different. But u'll notice the basics of so many cultures are all so similar.

but anyhoo that's just a theory. it's cool hearing ur interpretations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Closing_Doors
beaten up by penguins etc
hehe, u better watch out!

"10 people are bitten by sharks": isn't that cos they mistaken for other things?

"what about survival of the fittest and all that?" yeah of course if ur week you gonna get eaten (yum-yum) but in certain situations u will instinctively protect the weak.
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Old 06-23-2005, 01:51 PM   #15
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But this is my point Penguinboy, the debate is about comparing an animal's conscience to that of a humans, so an analogy is not appropriate.
Also, not many farmers go around killing people.

Are you saying you can't have moral instincts?

Are you saying that because the girl was in danger, the lions decided rather than eat her... to help her? So if she was walking along on her own, they would think, 'great, she is in no danger... I will now eat her, scaring the sh*t out of her in the process... it's alright if I do it!'?

To suggest the humans have no morals, is frankly rediculous and to suggest that a moral standpoint is for pulling chicks is almost insane... many moral choices are made privately and so could have no bearing on making me seem more attractive to women... unless you go around saying things like:

"Hey baby... today I was driving along and could have totally run over this old woman... there was no one around... but I didn't! I bet you've never wanted me more, right?'

Or

"Hey I was in Amsterdam last weekend and could have paid for sex a thousand times over and you would never know... but you know what... I didn't... for you, baby!"
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Old 06-23-2005, 02:04 PM   #16
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A white african farmer, threw one of his workers over a fence into a game reserve, where he was promptly eaten by lions... the farmer did it to teach the worker's family a lesson. He beat the guy up a bit first... and right infront of the lions!

Remarkably, the lions saw it as simply a gift... a free lunch if you will. They weren't outraged by the injustice of the farmer beating up on the guy, and they certainly didn't seem offended by the farmer's assumption that they would eat the worker.

The farmer took the remains (bones) of the worker home to the worker's family... He's now in jail and during the trial refused to apologize or show any remorse for the worker or his family.

Maybe this pride were rogues... we all know that lions are the most righteous, crime fighting vigilantes since Batman or those dudes in the red caps who used to patrol the underground.

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Old 06-23-2005, 02:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juzzza
But this is my point Penguinboy, the debate is about comparing an animal's conscience to that of a humans, so an analogy is not appropriate.
Also, not many farmers go around killing people.

Are you saying you can't have moral instincts?

Are you saying that because the girl was in danger, the lions decided rather than eat her... to help her? So if she was walking along on her own, they would think, 'great, she is in no danger... I will now eat her, scaring the sh*t out of her in the process... it's alright if I do it!'?

To suggest the humans have no morals, is frankly rediculous and to suggest that a moral standpoint is for pulling chicks is almost insane... many moral choices are made privately and so could have no bearing on making me seem more attractive to women... unless you go around saying things like:

"Hey baby... today I was driving along and could have totally run over this old woman... there was no one around... but I didn't! I bet you've never wanted me more, right?'

Or

"Hey I was in Amsterdam last weekend and could have paid for sex a thousand times over and you would never know... but you know what... I didn't... for you, baby!"
i'm just theorising. and i bet if a persion did some good deed they'd wanna let someone find out bout it, never know they might impress someone.

"Are you saying that because the girl was in danger, the lions decided [instinctive reaction] rather than eat her... to help her? So if she was walking along on her own, they would think, 'great, she is in no danger... I will now eat her, scaring the sh*t out of her in the process[which i enjoy because i'm a hungry lion full of adrenalin]... it's alright if I do it!'?"
I am saying that.

"is frankly rediculous""is almost insane"

i thinks i better abstain from ethical debates for a while.
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Old 06-23-2005, 02:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juzzza
A white african farmer, threw one of his workers over a fence into a game reserve, where he was promptly eaten by lions... the farmer did it to teach the worker's family a lesson. He beat the guy up a bit first... and right infront of the lions!

Remarkably, the lions saw it as simply a gift... a free lunch if you will. They weren't outraged by the injustice of the farmer beating up on the guy, and they certainly didn't seem offended by the farmer's assumption that they would eat the worker.

The farmer took the remains (bones) of the worker home to the worker's family... He's now in jail and during the trial refused to apologize or show any remorse for the worker or his family.

Maybe this pride were rogues... we all know that lions are the most righteous, crime fighting vigilantes since Batman or those dudes in the red caps who used to patrol the underground.

yeah but i bet the dude wasn't screaming like a little girl. most animals can spot youth a mile off.

aaaahhhh... penguinboy is trying to get out of this argument


*PenguinBoy proposes truce with Juzzza*
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Old 06-23-2005, 02:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinBoy
most animals can spot youth a mile off.
Is that so? What are you basing that on, your conversations with rhinos and antelopes at the bar?

I remember reading once, that cows think that dogs (all dogs) are actually calfs. If they have problems recognizing their own species... I ain't asking a cow to babysit any time soon.

Quote:
i bet if a persion did some good deed they'd wanna let someone find out bout it, never know they might impress someone
So morals are only about deeds you actually do? You can't make a moral choice about NOT doing something?

People that use deeds, status, money, whatever, to pull women... are making a moral choice... they aren't using morals to attract women.

But that being said, truce accepted.
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Old 06-23-2005, 03:11 PM   #20
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*breathes a sigh of relief*
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Old 06-23-2005, 03:48 PM   #21
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And to think, this all started with a conversation between two lions!

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Old 06-23-2005, 05:01 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juzzza
Of course the flaw in your argument, is that even if the person was incabable of communication, we have a reference point... I.E. they are human, so it is likely that they think and feel the same way as most other humans (not all)... even FOREIGNERS! ha ha ha
i dont see how that is a flaw. the reference point does make it easier to assume something about another humans motives(which could be wrong anyway). but thats all. the lack of that reference point doesnt preclude the motives of a different animal from being the same or similar. it only keeps you from assuming it. the reason you are not making that same assumption of an animal that is not human is that you see yourself as seperate from them. i dont. just different in some ways. we are all animals. we have different ways of living and different morals. i love how people think of 'humans' as some great moral creature. but the rest of the kingdom as savage beasts. the rest of the animal kingdom behaves morally in its own way. and in many cases i would say even more so. no other animal wipes out entire species just so they wont eat what they eat. a lion will kill an antelope, but not try to wipe out other animals that also eat antelope. we breed other living things specifically to kill them. we grow them in cages and then systematically kill them. can you imagine how 'savage' we would call a lion if we came across something similar in the 'wild'? wow. lions kill cubs. how savage. well, i read everyday where someone has killed a baby. everyday thousands of humans are beaten by others. killed by others. mothers kill their babies in human world too. the savage world is the epitome of we call freedom when you think about it. while we have created a system of living that perpetually keeps the majority living in misery. unable to even eat because all the food is locked up. 'belonging' to others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juzzza
but, our thought processes have evolved far beyond kill, eat, f**k, survive,
that is very debatable. when i look at our culture i see one based on killing to get comfort, doing what you can to get ****ed, and having as many different varieties of food as possible. we kill for pleasure. we kill for greed. for jealousy. for 'them' being black or jew or arab. we entertain ourselves with images of killing. movies about killing. it wasnt long ago that 20 million died in russia for being the wrong 'type' of person. 12 more in and around germany for the same reason. we watched stalin kill his and did nothing. the only reason we stopped hitler is he was becoming to strong. not because he killed his people. we killed hundreds of thousands of children with sanctions against iraq beause of one man, another human. 3 million in rwanda more recently. the 'moral' rest of the world just watched that one happen. why? who cares about them frickin africans? in other words i see violence rampant in our moral society. we starve ourselves to get ****ed. we spend billions on watching people get ****ed. we **** kids. we spend billions of dollars and countless hours online ****ing ourselves. sex is everywhere. sex sells. why? i think its obvious. we dress it up different. but we are far more obsessed of ****ing than ive seen from animals. eating? we eat far more than our bodies need. america is fat. very fat. and the rest of the 'civilized' world is catching up fast. as for survival, thats on the back burner for us because we are lucky to be born where we are. i promise that millions and millions have that first and foremost on their mind. yeah we have evolved ...but i dont look at evolution as a something linear. more like a web. doesnt mean we are better(or worse). just different.

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Originally Posted by PenguinBoy
Maybe our lives are just very highly evolved mating rituals, ......
yup. more or less. of course we dont spend all our time thinking of mating but neither does the rest of the animal planet.


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Originally Posted by PenguinBoy
There must be a natural sense of "morals", or Otherwise the whole of nature would just just kill eachother for the sheer fun of it. It's just something which has evolved to to stop nature from destroying itself..

yup. if you look closely and carefully there are rules followed. morals if you prefer. we dont follow the same rules and we are the only species capable of destroying the rest of nature. i think that alone should make people stop and think. doesnt though.

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Originally Posted by PenguinBoy
Ability to comunicate our ideas is perhaps the only thing which makes us think that we're so much different from these other animals.
but other animals communicate their ideas to each other just as well as we do. ive always wondered what was considered the intelligent part, the attempt to communicate or the ability to understand that attempt. we have taught monkeys to understand our alphabet, but no matter how much they yelp to us we dont understand a thing. my dog will understand a number of things that i tell it. but a bark is a bark to me. so who actually was using the intelligence? me or the dog? honestly i dont know.

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Originally Posted by Closing_Doors
People tend to gloss over the fact that for every event like the one detailed above, 10 people are bitten by sharks, mauled by bears, beaten up by penguins etc (It could happen!). Not that either conclusively proves anything...:
i agree with you completely. just as people tend to forget when annointing humans as morally superior that for every goodfeeling article i read about human behavior there are hundreds about murders, child molestation, human slave trade, countless wars, oppression, etc.



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Originally Posted by Closing_Doors
"Sometimes" being the key word there....it swings the other way as well....:
of course. but think of all the discoveries in the past that was thought of as absolute fact. not just the big ones like the earth being the center of the universe but the small as well. the vast majority of it has been wrong. i say that as something to be excited over. think of all the discoveries to come. (sistermidnight, have you seen what the bleep yet?)


great quote from hitchikers btw....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juzzza
And even a vegetarian animal like say a fluffy bunny, couldn't give two sh*ts about the calf... it's too busy looking for either food, or its next hump to care about a screaming calf. .
i agree. but to use that as an example to show a lack of conscience would be the same as me bringing up how the vast majority of humans didnt care less about 3 million in rwanda. or how we dont care about those in sudan now. or palestine or the congo(where only a couple hundred thousand people have died in the last few years. has to be the most underreported conflict on earth). we dont care about the congo because we are too busy watching american idol on one of our 3 household tv or clicking on a porn site or looking for a nice place to eat in one of our 2 cars to worry about a few hundred thousand screaming africans. does that make us any less moral than that bunny?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juzzza
A white african farmer, threw one of his workers over a fence into a game reserve, where he was promptly eaten by lions... the farmer did it to teach the worker's family a lesson. He beat the guy up a bit first... and right infront of the lions!

Remarkably, the lions saw it as simply a gift... a free lunch if you will. They weren't outraged by the injustice of the farmer beating up on the guy, and they certainly didn't seem offended by the farmer's assumption that they would eat the worker.

The farmer took the remains (bones) of the worker home to the worker's family... He's now in jail and during the trial refused to apologize or show any remorse for the worker or his family.

Maybe this pride were rogues... we all know that lions are the most righteous, crime fighting vigilantes since Batman or those dudes in the red caps who used to patrol the underground.

first...the immediate above comment is funny as hell. second though....this is the story you use to show that animals have conscience? no sense of right and wrong? it was a human that through that man over to the lions right? for survival? nope. to teach a lesson. ah the moral modern man. trying to help that poor fellows family with a pleasnt life lesson only to be punished for it.

alright...its lunch and im done with this. got me through the morning though.
just to be clear, im not saying we are worse than animals. nor better. i just find it funny that the most destructive, controlling and violent species on the planet is somehow the only one with a conscience.

juzza....just wanted to say, i do enjoy your music. and find you to be one of the more...upstanding people on this board. even when disagreeing with you. peace.
jason

it is too early to say that intelligence is, evolutionarily speaking, a good thing.
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Old 06-24-2005, 12:02 AM   #23
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I'm not going to get involved in this discussion, but just wanted to say I like you Jason
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Old 06-24-2005, 01:05 AM   #24
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me neither, but just wanted to say I like you dana
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Old 06-24-2005, 01:06 AM   #25
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"Ability to comunicate our ideas is perhaps the only thing which makes us think that we're so much different from these other animals."

yah, by this i meant to eachother, like, we can tell eachother what we're thinking. should have made it clearer, sorri.
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Old 06-24-2005, 09:31 AM   #26
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Nicely done, Jason... and Penguin Boy too by the way.

Let me make one thing clear... Humans are on the whole, idiots... not to mention selfish, greedy and cruel.

I actually agree with both of you when it comes to your opinion on us as a species. Scum.

I just still refuse to believe that the story about the kidnapped girl gives any weight whatsoever, to the argument that animals have a conscience. It's an incredible story, a fascinating story but in the end it's a one in a million chance and the lions not eating the girl have nothing to do with morals, ethics or a desire on the lion's part to do what's right... in my opinion, obviously I haven't had a chance to discuss this with the lions in question... they are too fully booked and are on their way to New York to do the 'Letterman' show.

Thanks guys, it's been emotional.
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Old 06-24-2005, 09:33 AM   #27
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Oooooooooh I could go on J...

But I think we will end up going in circles.
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Old 06-24-2005, 01:33 PM   #28
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Quote:
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me neither, but just wanted to say I like you dana
Aww You're not so bad yourself
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Old 06-24-2005, 07:34 PM   #29
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just to make one thing clear, my point was not for the lions but against men, i didn't know it would create such controversy
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Old 06-24-2005, 08:21 PM   #30
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Humans are not animals. Because some people are filled with hatred towards someone enough to murder, is because you're an animal? No, it's because that person has problems and didn't know how to deal with it.

Humans can think, can learn languages, read books, love your friend, neighbor, mother and spouse all the same in different ways. We can educate ourselves. It's ridiculous to say we're animals just because they're crazies out there.

Animals just have basic instinct. They can be trained and tamed, but not learn. The way I see it is that each animal is "programmed" (you can say) to act a certain way and that's all they do. They mate to have kids and they protect their kids, but because of love? I don't know, I think it's more because of instinct and how they see other animals like them act and they imitate it. Some animals, I think, are closer to humans (like domestic pets) and often imitate the love the human gives it. We might give a dog a peck (kiss) and they might lick your foot. See the difference?
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