New Album Spring 2012

[mario_d]

Originally Posted by Spamlet

.

Your analysis neglects the following facts:

1) When Damien left Juniper, they had already signed a record label that paid him a large sum of money.
2) Damien is wealthy beyond his needs already. (See: $500k guitar purchase a few months ago.)


Analyses: The first time he made a chunk of money, he went away and stopped making music (to farm tomatoes) for a while. He's made himself another chunk of money.

3) Damien has said he released 9 because the rest of the band and other business people kept pushing him and pushing him because THEY wanted to work.
4) Damien released 9 without knowing which tunes were even going to be on the album just to make them happy.

Analyses: The only reason 9 got released was because Lisa and Tomo and whoever forced him to work. He had all the O money and wasn't interested in music, or making sure the best possible product in his opinion would be released on the 9 album. He released an album he didn't care about not out of artistic integrity, but out of obligation to the band/record label.

5) He fired Lisa. Tomo quit the band. He has a huge chunk of money in the bank and no one is around to compel him to release an album. He once again is off farming tomatoes or whatever instead of making music.

Conclusion: None of this nonsense is out of a great sense of artistic integrity.



Aside from that, you also don't resolve my other major bone of contention: I don't care how many times he starts and abandons a project. But if he's going to make public pronouncements of the project, then he owes a public pronouncement that he abandoned it. I suggest he not announce it in the first place. But either way works. As long as he doesn't pronounce and then ignore the pronouncement.

But the evidence of his lack of appropriate respect for his fans is the indignation he has shown for people who have the "gall" to actually ask him about the next album which he keeps talking about.

[T-Lloyd]

Originally Posted by mario_d

Your analysis neglects the following facts:

1) When Damien left Juniper, they had already signed a record label that paid him a large sum of money.
2) Damien is wealthy beyond his needs already. (See: $500k guitar purchase a few months ago.)


Analyses: The first time he made a chunk of money, he went away and stopped making music (to farm tomatoes) for a while. He's made himself another chunk of money.

3) Damien has said he released 9 because the rest of the band and other business people kept pushing him and pushing him because THEY wanted to work.
4) Damien released 9 without knowing which tunes were even going to be on the album just to make them happy.

Analyses: The only reason 9 got released was because Lisa and Tomo and whoever forced him to work. He had all the O money and wasn't interested in music, or making sure the best possible product in his opinion would be released on the 9 album. He released an album he didn't care about not out of artistic integrity, but out of obligation to the band/record label.

5) He fired Lisa. Tomo quit the band. He has a huge chunk of money in the bank and no one is around to compel him to release an album. He once again is off farming tomatoes or whatever instead of making music.

Conclusion: None of this nonsense is out of a great sense of artistic integrity.



Aside from that, you also don't resolve my other major bone of contention: I don't care how many times he starts and abandons a project. But if he's going to make public pronouncements of the project, then he owes a public pronouncement that he abandoned it. I suggest he not announce it in the first place. But either way works. As long as he doesn't pronounce and then ignore the pronouncement.

But the evidence of his lack of appropriate respect for his fans is the indignation he has shown for people who have the "gall" to actually ask him about the next album which he keeps talking about.

I honestly feel like this is Groundhogs day! Why does everyone keep on saying their exact same points over and over again? It doesn't make your point any more valid by repeating it over and over again; we've heard it all before, maybe instead spend your time doing things with your life that don't involve this much un-necessary hatred and stagnant debate? I'm sure you'll come out a lot less bitter! Just a thought, I know I for sure would rather spend my time consumed by things that don't piss me off....but hey, that's just me! Each to their own.

[davidcotyalex]

lmFao

[mario_d]

Originally Posted by T-Lloyd

I honestly feel like this is Groundhogs day! Why does everyone keep on saying their exact same points over and over again? It doesn't make your point any more valid by repeating it over and over again; we've heard it all before, maybe instead spend your time doing things with your life that don't involve this much un-necessary hatred and stagnant debate? I'm sure you'll come out a lot less bitter! Just a thought, I know I for sure would rather spend my time consumed by things that don't piss me off....but hey, that's just me! Each to their own.

Because they're not "points" they are indisputable facts that you and others keep ignoring while you trumpet subjective, borderline-nonsensical arguments like "it's ART man".

I'm pointing out to Spam the facts that he was incorrect about in his post. And I'm explaining to him why the final line of his post is not an accurate portrayal of my statements. I'm not criticizing Damien for changing his mind. I'm criticizing him for the behavior that surrounds the changing of his mind. He can change his mind all he wants, he just ought not announce X, change his mind without announcing anything, and then get pissy when people ask about X and deny he ever announced it.

[davidcotyalex]

[T-Lloyd]

Originally Posted by davidcotyalex

HAHAHA! That produced actual tears of laughter!

[davidcotyalex]

my wife hated it...............and i thought of taking it down...........but then again that is exactly why I put it up in the first place lol! salute!

[radiohead33]

Originally Posted by mario_d

Because they're not "points" they are indisputable facts that you and others keep ignoring while you trumpet subjective, borderline-nonsensical arguments like "it's ART man".

I'm pointing out to Spam the facts that he was incorrect about in his post. And I'm explaining to him why the final line of his post is not an accurate portrayal of my statements. I'm not criticizing Damien for changing his mind. I'm criticizing him for the behavior that surrounds the changing of his mind. He can change his mind all he wants, he just ought not announce X, change his mind without announcing anything, and then get pissy when people ask about X and deny he ever announced it.

I think you are missing the point. I think most music fans, or fans of any artist or medium, know that setbacks, delays, long rumored albums or projects never are released. thats sort of art 101. and i think you are failing to accept that. We all have artists we are rabid for. I have a million musicians i would love for them to release an album tomorrow, I have a million actors I want to see in a movie this week. But the reality is, im aware and most people are aware artists arent indebted to the audience in the sense of that they work for us. They work for themselves and we may enjoy their work, but when you realize no artist got into it because they wanted to PLEASE YOU personally, you have a better and more healthy and realistic view of it all.

I think you seem to think of a mass of angry pissed off fans who throw a temper tantrum every single day the rumored album 3 is not released. I think thats fantasy. I think its YOU thats pissed off and angry. I want album 3, but Damien does what he wants. And as i said, if you think you personally have the power to change his behavior, id go to the hospital immediately

What i find most distressing about your comments are the fact they seem to apply only to damien. Im sure you are a fan of more musicians other than damien. Im sure you like movies. Im sure as a human in the world you are aware that sometimes movies get delayed, or postponed, cancelled, and music does to. Im sure someone other than damien that you consider a "favorite artist" of yours has delayed, postponed, cancelled, scraped, announced a new project then shelved it".

Its funny because to me its not even a big issue. I want album 3 as much as anyone, but delays and scrapped projects are a dime a dozen. Give me a genre and I can name 20 artists who have delayed their work, or not released it, or said "this is coming out soon" and it never does.

What you seem to be suggesting is that artists not announce dates for projects until they are positively sure. To me thats not realistic. Im sure you have set plans to do something, made a date, and cancelled, or post poned or delayed. I have. We all have. You have a dentist appointment. You agree to the date. Then something happens and you have to cancel. Thats life Mario. If we personally have that going on, why expect anyone else to be any different?

Im considering getting my degree in a year. I know the date of that. I know what classes i have to take. I also know, thats a long time away. And things could change. I could change majors. I could move out of state. I could get a job in something else and not graduate. I could take a break.

The problem with holding people to some date, firm date, is that it doesnt mirror real life.

This applies to the work he may or may not have created. He could have written 20 songs worth of material for the Barcelona thing. Doesnt mean he would necessarily be proud of the work he did. WHo knows, maybe he writes a song every single day. Maybe he has a hundred songs for album 3. Doesnt mean he is proud enough with any of the songs to release them.

[davidcotyalex]

Originally Posted by radiohead33

I think you are missing the point. LMFAO



Its funny because to me its not even a big issue. Understatement of the year

Im considering getting my degree in a year. Now it all makes sense..............ahhh the joys of youth - if I was only half as smart as I thought I was..................

lol

[T-Lloyd]

Originally Posted by radiohead33

I want album 3 as much as anyone, but delays and scrapped projects are a dime a dozen. Give me a genre and I can name 20 artists who have delayed their work, or not released it, or said "this is coming out soon" and it never does.

Yeop, I was right, it is Groundhogs day hahaha. You and Mario aren't making any head way with each other....maybe it's worth both parties stop biting because in reality you are both posting almost the same thing every single time but just rewording it! You both will not come to an agreement because you are both set in your different mindsets (That's not a bad thing); so why continue? I realised that Mario would not change his views and neither would I on this matter so that's why I left it after posting my opinion. Maybe time to do the same? Peace!

[Lin@]

[T-Lloyd]

Originally Posted by Lin@

^^hahaha yuss!

[mario_d]

Originally Posted by radiohead33

The problem with holding people to some date, firm date, is that it doesnt mirror real life. I think you are missing the point.

The point is you're either a troll (as other people have labelled you for years) or an idiot who can't comprehend the simple fact that you can change your mind but there is a moral imperative that if you announce something and change you mind, you announce that you changed your mind.

Originally Posted by radiohead33

The problem with holding people to some date, firm date, is that it doesnt mirror real life.

You have no idea what you're talking about. If a CEO announces a new product, posts videos of the production of that new product, and then nothing happens for five years... well it wouldn't take five years for the stock to become worthless and the company to be sold off for scrap parts.

Go tell your boss you'll be stocking the shelves tomorrow, and then just don't do it for two weeks. I'm sure you'll keep that job.

How many airlines sell plane tickets and when you show up at the airport say "I don't know what you're talking about and it's really annoying that you keep asking me about it."

THAT's real life.

[mario_d]

Originally Posted by T-Lloyd

Yeop, I was right, it is Groundhogs day hahaha. You and Mario aren't making any head way with each other....maybe it's worth both parties stop biting because in reality you are both posting almost the same thing every single time but just rewording it! You both will not come to an agreement because you are both set in your different mindsets (That's not a bad thing); so why continue? I realised that Mario would not change his views and neither would I on this matter so that's why I left it after posting my opinion. Maybe time to do the same? Peace!

You know what really helps? You providing mindless color commentary. INTEGRAL contribution to the discussion.

[T-Lloyd]

Originally Posted by mario_d

You know what really helps? You providing mindless color commentary. INTEGRAL contribution to the discussion.

You know what doesn't help? You saying the same thing over and over again. You think your opinions are undeniable facts; unfortunately no, they are your take on the matter. I'm not going to go back and debate your points because its not worth spending the time on something that you will not truly see. Spamlet wrote a great and well thought out post and you were too blind to see the truth in his words and instead spent your time and energy in re-writing the same points you have been saying all along. Your main argument is that Damien can't announce something, change his mind and then not denounce it....i'm sorry, but this is your opinion and not a fact. I have no problem with him doing this and neither do a lot of other people; so therefore your main point is just an opinion and one that is getting very tired. The other points you keep repeating have already been argued against and you keep just saying the same thing; so you can enjoy your depressing existence where you are doomed to relive the same thoughts about the same topic. I'm moving on (and so had the topic until you and radiohead33 got back into it again). Enjoy

[eva_arg]

clearly, none of you will reach an understanding with each other, you all think differently and won't change your mind. AND this discussion is going nowhere. I don't see the point of keep going with this, but to each their own I guess.
sad to see this thread has gone this way.
anyway, just my two cents

[T-Lloyd]

Originally Posted by eva_arg

clearly, none of you will reach an understanding with each other, you all think differently and won't change your mind. AND this discussion is going nowhere. I don't see the point of keep going with this, but to each their own I guess.
sad to see this thread has gone this way.
anyway, just my two cents

Agreed!

[davidcotyalex]

Originally Posted by eva_arg

sad to see this thread has gone this way.

It was all Shillelagh's fault

the first page is actually fairly amusing in hindsight

[faninor]

It makes me smile to see the same person repeatedly post saying that other people are saying the same crap over and over again.

[Shillelagh]

Originally Posted by davidcotyalex

It was all Shillelagh's fault

the first page is actually fairly amusing in hindsight

You're welcome

[mario_d]

Originally Posted by T-Lloyd

You know what doesn't help? You saying the same thing over and over again. You think your opinions are undeniable facts;

They are undeniable facts. Damien did announce things then pretend he never said them and get annoyed at being asked.

Every single justification of Damien posted in this thread has been to a strawman argument of their own creation: "He's allowed to change his mind".

That's why I keep posting the same facts over again. Because not a single criticism of me has responded to what I actually said.

[glo32]

You're all going a bit off topic here, can we return back to the point of the thread, which is the new album?
Damien is announcing an European tour, so there will be a new album in the way... This tour looks like the one he did with Fiona Apple in the US before 9, to try the new songs and all...

[T-Lloyd]

Originally Posted by glo32

You're all going a bit off topic here, can we return back to the point of the thread, which is the new album?
Damien is announcing an European tour, so there will be a new album in the way... This tour looks like the one he did with Fiona Apple in the US before 9, to try the new songs and all...

Indeed! Man I hope that's the case; I could definitely do with some new Damien Rice tunes in my life!

[ElephantMan]

Originally Posted by glo32

You're all going a bit off topic here, can we return back to the point of the thread, which is the new album?
Damien is announcing an European tour, so there will be a new album in the way... This tour looks like the one he did with Fiona Apple in the US before 9, to try the new songs and all...

^agree....can we all promise not to talk on this thread until we hear news of a new album....yes it may be yrs, but someone open up a fight thread to continue this shiite!!

[faninor]

Originally Posted by glo32

Damien is announcing an European tour, so there will be a new album in the way...

Maybe, maybe not. I'm happy to see that he's playing more shows, but I don't think there's any new album news yet.

[davidcotyalex]

Originally Posted by faninor

Maybe, maybe not. I'm happy to see that he's playing more shows, but I don't think there's any new album news yet.

I agree with that ......... tours follow the release

and this is meaningful because it is a string of gigs rather than just a one off

I however view this similarly to what david gray is doing this summer - he is coming over to the states and banging out 8 gigs in 10 days - I don't think at all it means the new cd is any closer - rather I think they are doing it for a break and to stuff a couple bucks in their jeans..........will we get a new song or two? hopefully! we got three this winter between sundance and vegas so fingers crossed

[glo32]

Originally Posted by davidcotyalex

I agree with that ......... tours follow the release

not always... remember when he did the US tour before 9? It was for trying out new songs in front of an audience and stuff like that. O this might be a similar strategy... I don't see why he should tour if nothing has changed, it's not a one off gig like in Korea or an unusual tour like the one in South America...

[borneoman]

1000% sure this is a road-testing-songs tour!!!!!!!! call me optimistic Agree this is the same scenario as the tour supporting Fiona-Worst-Perforer-In-The-History-Of-Music-Apple We will also get The Professor and Tbw every night but hopefully he'll throw in a bunch of newies

[davidcotyalex]

I would expect nothing less from you two!! and here's to hoping you are indeed right!!

of course the cynic will say even if he does perform some new songs it doesn't necessarily mean they make vinyl........but we don't need to go there again

at the very least you are going to see him in some very cool venues and places so it should be awesome! we will be sitting idly by waiting on the reports......

[davidcotyalex]

oh and lol on FWPITHOMA!!!