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Old 09-30-2014, 09:02 PM   #121
borneoman
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^no, Cadaques, north of Barcelona
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Old 10-01-2014, 02:28 AM   #122
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I love your passion, Spamlet. I have enjoyed your earnest lyrical analysis through the years, so I like this debate with you. I hope I'm not annoying you or the other readers because over-analysis can sometimes spoil a great thing.

I think there can be multiple interpretations of everything, depending on one's frame of reference. I see that you have a very romanticized interpretation and I actually would prefer your lens. I'd like to play devil's advocate, though, and present some alternate interpretations, based on my study of human nature.
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Except that it's far more than mere comfort. The eyes are our windows to the soul and in hers he sees divine purity. By evoking the Christ child, he is describing actual deliverance ("where there is no danger") and salvation ("where love has eyes, it is not blind"). His life is saved, he is reborn and she has the power to heal. Anything but commonplace.
This is a very lofty analysis and could be his intention. Alternately, although he says "eyes," a cynic could read "thighs." A manger could also be interpreted as one's animalistic nature. In a physical relationship there is no "emotional" danger, which feels safer. It is a common excuse by those who stray from their devotion. What I meant by common.

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As for the "fun" part. It's not about frivolity or a flippancy. You've taken it so out of context to the point where the meaning has been completely lost. The full thought is:

"I've never been with anyone/ in the way I've been with you/ but if love is not for fun/ then it's doomed/ 'cause water races/water races down/ the water falls/ water races/ water races down/ the waterfall".

In addition to the unwavering devotion of the verses, these first two lines re-establish that seriousness. This relationship is unlike anything he's ever had. Although part of that is because it's one-sided since she is afraid to take the chance with him. So he acknowledges that it will never work if they are not willing to ride the roller coaster, to bravely navigate the raging rapids. To survive the ups and downs and terrifying twists. To risk going on the adventure of a life spent together.

He's not saying "just" (and doesn't use that word in the song). The "for" might as well have been "also".
It is often said that once you add "...but," you negate the first part of the sentence. So in context, the "but" reads as flippant and trivializes the devotion of the first part. I like what Wheels said about water and waterfall being symbolic of time and life. As time passes through life, if you let the need for fun negate every other aspect of the relationship, it is surely doomed.

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The deepest love must consist of an equal balance of loyalty and joy. Who could ever convincingly argue that the two sides of that coin aren't both essential for true and lasting shared happiness?
I agree with you on this part and do not think this can be debated. I think the lyrics of this song indicate someone who struggles with that balance.

I think this is a great song where he is revealing his internal conflict. It reveals his love/resentment, his passiveness/aggression, his struggle to find the right words... He knows he messed up, but he hasn't let go of his anger. Everything he says could be interpreted as such:
1) Does "no matter how far/well, i can go before you" mean he's leading for her to follow, establishing dominance and superiority?
2) Does "and if ever you need someone/well, not that you need helping/but if ever you want someone/know that i am willing" mean that he knows he is implying that she needs him, but knows he shouldn't say it?
3) Does "i can feed this real slow/if it’s a lot to swallow" mean he's going to shove his need to make amends down her throat, even though she's not ready? Does the fact that it's slow make it more palatable?
4) Does "if you want me to let this go/well, i’m more than willing" mean I'll give up, but in a passive/aggressive way?

It's a work of art because it is so complex!

Last edited by InspirationDestination; 10-02-2014 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 10-01-2014, 02:33 AM   #123
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Does anyone else have the feeling that there's something wrong with the teaser videos?
In IDWTCY it looks like he isn't actually standing on the little pier.
The perspective is wrong. The pier seems to be rather short, but when he walks away from the camera, he gets a lot smaller quickly, as if he were standing a lot further.

In MFFF it looks like the village behind him is just a picture on a screen. There's no movement in it at all.

But I could be wrong... It's just this feeling I have...
For IDWTCY, the movements are odd, so it may be played in reverse and edited (intentionally) in a choppy way.

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Old 10-01-2014, 06:32 AM   #124
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^ yeah, that's not what i meant though. I think they skipped some frames, as someone suggested.
(I'm a graphic designer and i study photography, so i work with and look at images a lot.)
The perspective and the depth of field look odd to me. But I'm probably wrong. It might be the lens.
Also in MFFF the contrast between light and dark is different from what I would expect.
I really hope that I'm wrong though.
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Old 10-01-2014, 09:57 AM   #125
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I think you're right. The frames don't all seem to be in the same sequence, which messes with perspective. Maybe it will smoother in the full version or they are intentionally trying to distort perspective. It would go with the song, in many ways. Or, it could just be an artsy presentation.

carrroline, I just saw your landscapes and concert pics via your signature links. They are beautiful! The landscapes are so moody and the concert pics use color and light so well. You are very talented!

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Old 10-01-2014, 10:15 AM   #126
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The place in MFFF is, indeed, real. Coincidentally I was in Cadaqués the same week it was released and -yeah, okay, creepily- looked for the window where it could've been shot and I am 99% sure I found it... Same perspective on the church view, same blinds... That's where I took the instant pic on my avatar!
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:34 AM   #127
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Quote:
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I think you're right. The frames don't all seem to be in the same sequence, which messes with perspective. Maybe it will smoother in the finished project or they are intentionally trying to distort perspective. It would go with the song, in many ways. Or, it could just be an artsy presentation.

carrroline, I just saw your landscapes and concert pics via your signature links. They are beautiful! The landscapes are so moody and the concert pics use color so well. You are very talented!
I agree, it might be intentionally, it creates a strange enigmatic atmosphere.

Thanks
I'm still learning and practicing every day


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The place in MFFF is, indeed, real. Coincidentally I was in Cadaqués the same week it was released and -yeah, okay, creepily- looked for the window where it could've been shot and I am 99% sure I found it... Same perspective on the church view, same blinds... That's where I took the instant pic on my avatar!
That's not creepy, that's just normal curiosity
Thanks for sharing!
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Old 10-01-2014, 02:24 PM   #128
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Yes, Carrroline, great photos! I'm a medical photographer and your pictures inspire me to get back out into the world with my camera again.

The IDWTCY video reminds me of the camera tricks in the horror movie The Ring, dropping frames to make the scary little girl come at the screen faster. This is sort of the opposite effect I guess. I like it, it adds some edges to such a smooth sounding song.
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Old 10-01-2014, 04:29 PM   #129
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Yes, Carrroline, great photos! I'm a medical photographer and your pictures inspire me to get back out into the world with my camera again.

The IDWTCY video reminds me of the camera tricks in the horror movie The Ring, dropping frames to make the scary little girl come at the screen faster. This is sort of the opposite effect I guess. I like it, it adds some edges to such a smooth sounding song.
Thanks… (all this praise is making me feel a bit shy )
yeah, go explore! your camera should get some fresh air once in a while

Damien and horror movies... strange combination
(Although his name always reminds me of the boy from 'the Omen')
'the ring' isn't exactly what I had in mind, but I can see what you mean.
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Old 10-02-2014, 09:56 AM   #130
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ID,

My arguments are always firmly based in the text because the most convincing tend to be the ones that have the most evidence behind them in order to support what's being asserted. Anyone can interpret anything in any way they want, but credibility is another issue altogether. For example, saying a writer used the word "black" because he really meant "white" (ironically?) isn't likely to be met with much consensus. I definitely have no problem with it, though, especially if it's just to play Devil's Advocate or for fun.

Like Damo, I'm just as much cynic as I am a romantic so I feel no need to force a "lofty" message onto a song that's not already there. True, I mentioned earlier that there was internal conflict and that he does want to change her but I see too much cumulative proof in this one that the narrator's looking for much more from her than just sex. He's undoubtably written several songs in which the interpretation you seem to be lending this one could fit. Having studied the bulk of them (none of us have heard every single thing he's ever written yet), his signature trait has always been unrepentant honesty, often to the detriment. When he's bitter it's anything but passive.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:43 AM   #131
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I think I finally get this song.
Here's what it means to me... (You don't have to agree, but it seems to fit to me )

The 'manger' (especially in combination with 'stranger') is a strong reference to 'the stranger song' by Leonard Cohen ('He was just some Joseph looking for a manger') (if you don't know the song, you should find it, it's one of my personal favourites).

By using this reference he portrays himself as a restless soul, wandering from one safe haven to another. But when the safe haven turns into something real, something more, he feels compelled to run away. ("If love is not for fun then it's doomed")

He can't help making the same mistakes all over again, just like water can't help going down the waterfall (it even accelerates, when it gets closer), it's part of his nature.

This also changes the meaning of "i don't want to change you" into "stop trying to change me" (which is a bit passive aggressive)

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Old 10-03-2014, 10:04 AM   #132
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So how do you account for the verses? He's making all the requests to be close since it doesn't sound like she's already looking for that from him.
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Old 10-04-2014, 10:33 PM   #133
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Leonard Cohen songs are epic stories. I've never heard that song before, so thanks for the reference.

I once read a musical artist (I can't remember who) say that he intentionally doesn't print lyrics because he wants listeners to find meaning in their own individual ways. I kinda like that, even though I always want to decipher lyrics when I hear a song.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Spamlet. Are you interpreting that the stranger is his object of affection, whom he doesn't/does want to change?

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Old 10-04-2014, 11:29 PM   #134
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Compared to O, it's slightly more produced. The sound is richer, for good or bad.
Very distinct strings... ok. But also for the guitar. For us, who love Damien for his rawness, we may tend to say overproduced.
"I don't want to change you" is not overproduced for me, like some arrangements ruins the song or something like that.
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Old 10-05-2014, 06:15 AM   #135
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I don't know who else it would be. They're really the only two people in the song.
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:44 AM   #136
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So, is IDWTCY supposed to be a proper single or just a teaser like MFFF? It looks like it's not really gaining much traction, his performance of it on Jools was kind of bland - almost uncomfortable - and he didn't even play it at the SF show. I don't get the feeling that this song is his or for that matter anyone else's favorite.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:33 AM   #137
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just added to bbc radio 2 playlist



as expected bbc radio 1 has ignored the song, Damien is too old, but has been just added to the radio 2 c-list. I see US radios like kcrw are also playing it.

ps the Jools performance was good, you´re biased cos you don´t like the song
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:11 AM   #138
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ps the Jools performance was good, you´re biased cos you don´t like the song
Could be. Saw very mixed reviews of the performance on Twitter though.

Btw, so far MFFF has been played 1.2m times on Spotify, IDWTCY only 300.000. I don't know is that's any indication, maybe it'll pick up. I don't know if IDWTCY is even supposed to be a proper single, promotion seems to work so differently these days. I kind of expect TGB to be released as well in the lead up to the album release.
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:31 AM   #139
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I don't know if IDWTCY is even supposed to be a proper single, promotion seems to work so differently these days.

i´ve been thinking he might be testing reactions on people since the sound is quite different to "what we were expecting". i have no idea, but i´ve never understood the idea of the singles in the first place, he.

btw, MFFF has been growing and growing and growing on me. i think itá an amazing piece of music.
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Old 10-09-2014, 07:09 PM   #140
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Could be. Saw very mixed reviews of the performance on Twitter though.

Btw, so far MFFF has been played 1.2m times on Spotify, IDWTCY only 300.000. I don't know is that's any indication, maybe it'll pick up. I don't know if IDWTCY is even supposed to be a proper single, promotion seems to work so differently these days. I kind of expect TGB to be released as well in the lead up to the album release.
I was noticing that on Spotify too; I kind of wonder if it's the effect of him releasing the one song and everyone going "OMG DAMIEN RICE HAS NEW MUSIC!!!" and maybe forgetting to keep looking for more?

at least 10,000 of those 300,000 are probably me though i am completely in love with this song.
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Old 10-09-2014, 07:38 PM   #141
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MFFF was a buzz track, Change You is the lead single everywhere, promo has just started with Jools and from this week on is on the bbc2 playlist. At this stage in Damo's career, that's the audience that matters cos they buy albums.

Change You has just been added so no plays yet. MFFF has had a few spins, so I guess that´s why it´s doing better on Spotify. Using "comparemyradio" I see only bbc radio is playing Damo...

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Old 10-27-2014, 12:13 PM   #142
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IDWTCY is suddenly #12 on UK Itunes guess it´s an instant gratis just released today for uk people and got so high cos of the preorders of the album

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Old 10-27-2014, 02:00 PM   #143
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Well, I've listened to MFFF on Spotify more because I like that song far more than Change You.
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Old 10-27-2014, 09:19 PM   #144
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=gmHErczxpUk

Does anyone know what the lyrics to the additional verse of I don't want to change you in this version are? Starts at 5:45
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Old 11-02-2014, 04:03 PM   #145
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Just realised that the official video for this song has been up on his website for a couple of weeks! I think the location is beautiful, and it looks like he is talking right to someone, except I don't really understand the significance of the falling in water and resurfacing and the water droplets going back on his face, or even the weird moves he does before falling into water. All seems slightly absurd, or maybe I am missing a very obvious visual allegory. Anyone knows?
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Old 11-02-2014, 04:17 PM   #146
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^^ It's kind of like the reverse of Little Bird.
Haha
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Old 11-02-2014, 04:24 PM   #147
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Haha, could be. But I don't think was the intention really, because most of his songs have a sea/water connection too. He looks extremely distraught and they keep showing him getting out of water, and that weird dance (?) just before he falls in also seems so absurd!
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Old 11-03-2014, 08:16 PM   #148
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irish water this time

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