How do you begin recording gigs?

daol20 · 12-13-2003, 02:06 PM

What kind of equipment is needed? Is it expensive? How do you get clear sound (ie. no talking/singing from crowd)?
Is the recording in digital format and then converted to .shn etc??

And then the software side of the process, how do you go about that?

Im interested in taping gigs myself but havent a clue where/how to begin.</font>

Alistair · 12-13-2003, 03:03 PM

yeah i've often wondered the same thing, and also if you get searched when going into a gig do they convescate any taping equipment or just not care?

Scon · 12-14-2003, 03:28 PM

I'll try and give this a go without using any of the technical terms. Hope that makes it easier [img]smileys/smiley1.gif[/img] If you want to get great recordings, it can be very expensive, yes. It will become a compromise between cost and quality very often.

The most basic recorder to go for would be the minidisc recorder. There problem is that they can only fit 80mins per minidisc, so you will need to switch mid-show. Three other widely used recorders are DAT recorders, mp3players*, and laptops.
The laptop is obviously very bulky, and can only be used in situations where you have permission to record. It's not really even a consideration for most. The same often applies to a DAT recorder, and they're quite pricey.
The best you can hope for is an mp3 player. I put the asterix there, because there's only a few of them that will do the job. They need to be able to record, be able to record as a wav (rather than mp3), and have the right connection (a 'line-in' or 'mic' socket... whoops promised I wouldn't do that!) Ones that are capable of this will have a mini hard-disk inside them, and this will need to be at least 2.5gb big to fit a show. The creative 'nomad' jukebox is a popular choice.

For mics, you need to keep in mind that there are 2 main types. Ones that pic up sound all around, and ones that pick up sound in one direction. The latter is preferable, as you can aim it at the speakers. They will still pick up some audience noise, but I see this as a benefit in most cases (to create the atmosphere).
Another thing to keep in mind is their power. Cheap mics don't have this problem (and suffer for it), but you'll usually need to also have a power source for the mic, often referred to as a battery pack. Some mics have a battery compartment inside them and negate this. Mics that use the recorder for power have very weak recording levels and will usually pick up a lot of backgound noise/hiss.

If you want to record without being noticed, it's probably best to get a small clip-on mic. Some of them have great sound quality. Your best bet is to find out the bands stance on recording, and try and get some sort of policy from them. Most bands in the US have a pre-written 'recording policy' that you can show at a venue if there is a problem.
If you're not allowed to record and get caught, usually they will ask you for you minidiscs and batteries. You can usually stay though. I know somebody who was recording David Gray in the Point and was asked to leave, but this is rare.

It sounds complicated, but it's not really. There is always the easy option of sticking a computer mic into a standard minidisc recorder. It'll work, but don't expect it to sound good.

Hope this helped somewhat. Don't hesitate me to go over anything if it doesn't make sense. I should stress that I'm not an expert in this area, so if anybody feels like correcting me - go right ahead. Jon is probably the most knowledgable in this area, that I can think of.

Funky Avocado · 12-14-2003, 03:52 PM

I highly recommend before you buy anything you check out these two sites which I believe are probably the most popular on the net for tapers IMHO:

http://www.oade.com/Tapers_Section/index.html

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php

As for getting your rig confiscated, I would check with your local laws. In the northeast, USA, they can not take your equipment, only ask you to leave if so inclined. In some states like NY, they are even responsible if they cause any damage to your gear like some pinhead bouncer beating on your gear because he doesn't think you are packing up fast enough. I love NY

dmbit · 12-14-2003, 07:02 PM

Another bad thing of minidiscs, and mp3 players as well, is that they're very sensitive to vibrations, so if you move too much they may skip. The only solution is to be very careful, or to buy a DAT recorder, but they are very expensive. But my suggestion is: don't economize on mics! They are the most important thing. You can have the best recorder with a cheap microphone and it will sound crap. On the other way, with a good microphone you can make decent recordings even on a crappy equipment. Good mics cost a lot, but if you want a good sound, they're the only way (except if you have the permission to take the sound from the soundboard directly, but that should be obvious, isn't it? [img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img]).

slein · 12-15-2003, 01:31 AM

cheap microphone that can easily be hidden in a button hole of you shirt or in a baseball cap: $ 65

average MD player with two different input sensitivity settings: $ 150.

good recording of the 11-4-2003 damien rice concert in munich: priceless

[img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img]

i even taped an extremely loud Ween concert last week, and the sound is great!

nightingale333 · 12-15-2003, 03:11 AM

If you're buying your first pair of mircophones, get the AT831's ( from soundprofessionals.com ) Granted they may seem a little pricey at $130 a pair, but they are so worth it ( plus, they are perfect for stealth recording ) I use them, and I love them.

As far as the Nomad jukebox goes - I have mixed feelings on these. I use one, and while doing the actual recording has been relatively easy - the battery that comes with it is not the greatest. Mine is totally shot and I've had to order another ( which are difficult to find ) Luckily, I was able to tape a friends show tonight by plugging into the soundboard ( which sounds great, by the way ), but still...

Then again, this may be a mute point, since I'm not even sure the Nomad III's are still being manufactured...

daol20 · 12-15-2003, 03:39 AM

Thanks for all your help lads!! [img]smileys/smiley20.gif[/img] That should be more than enough to get me started!!</font>

12-13-2003, 02:06 PM	#1
daol20 Eskimo irRegular Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern Yemen Posts: 2,091	What kind of equipment is needed? Is it expensive? How do you get clear sound (ie. no talking/singing from crowd)? Is the recording in digital format and then converted to .shn etc?? And then the software side of the process, how do you go about that? Im interested in taping gigs myself but havent a clue where/how to begin.</font> __________________ You leave me here bereaving from the words so hard and plain Saying the love that we had was just selfish and sad To see you now with him is just making me mad Oh so kiss him again just to prove to me that you can an I will stand here and burn in my skin

12-15-2003, 03:11 AM	#7
nightingale333 Eskimo Friend Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: United States Posts: 67	If you're buying your first pair of mircophones, get the AT831's ( from soundprofessionals.com ) Granted they may seem a little pricey at $130 a pair, but they are so worth it ( plus, they are perfect for stealth recording ) I use them, and I love them. As far as the Nomad jukebox goes - I have mixed feelings on these. I use one, and while doing the actual recording has been relatively easy - the battery that comes with it is not the greatest. Mine is totally shot and I've had to order another ( which are difficult to find ) Luckily, I was able to tape a friends show tonight by plugging into the soundboard ( which sounds great, by the way ), but still... Then again, this may be a mute point, since I'm not even sure the Nomad III's are still being manufactured... __________________ "I was just thinking, merely thinking..."

12-15-2003, 03:39 AM	#8
daol20 Eskimo irRegular Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern Yemen Posts: 2,091	Thanks for all your help lads!! [img]smileys/smiley20.gif[/img] That should be more than enough to get me started!!</font> __________________ You leave me here bereaving from the words so hard and plain Saying the love that we had was just selfish and sad To see you now with him is just making me mad Oh so kiss him again just to prove to me that you can an I will stand here and burn in my skin

12-13-2003, 03:03 PM	#2
Alistair Eskimo Regular Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Paris, France Posts: 398	yeah i've often wondered the same thing, and also if you get searched when going into a gig do they convescate any taping equipment or just not care?

12-14-2003, 03:28 PM	#3
Scon Eskimo Regular Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ireland Posts: 398	I'll try and give this a go without using any of the technical terms. Hope that makes it easier [img]smileys/smiley1.gif[/img] If you want to get great recordings, it can be very expensive, yes. It will become a compromise between cost and quality very often. The most basic recorder to go for would be the minidisc recorder. There problem is that they can only fit 80mins per minidisc, so you will need to switch mid-show. Three other widely used recorders are DAT recorders, mp3players*, and laptops. The laptop is obviously very bulky, and can only be used in situations where you have permission to record. It's not really even a consideration for most. The same often applies to a DAT recorder, and they're quite pricey. The best you can hope for is an mp3 player. I put the asterix there, because there's only a few of them that will do the job. They need to be able to record, be able to record as a wav (rather than mp3), and have the right connection (a 'line-in' or 'mic' socket... whoops promised I wouldn't do that!) Ones that are capable of this will have a mini hard-disk inside them, and this will need to be at least 2.5gb big to fit a show. The creative 'nomad' jukebox is a popular choice. For mics, you need to keep in mind that there are 2 main types. Ones that pic up sound all around, and ones that pick up sound in one direction. The latter is preferable, as you can aim it at the speakers. They will still pick up some audience noise, but I see this as a benefit in most cases (to create the atmosphere). Another thing to keep in mind is their power. Cheap mics don't have this problem (and suffer for it), but you'll usually need to also have a power source for the mic, often referred to as a battery pack. Some mics have a battery compartment inside them and negate this. Mics that use the recorder for power have very weak recording levels and will usually pick up a lot of backgound noise/hiss. If you want to record without being noticed, it's probably best to get a small clip-on mic. Some of them have great sound quality. Your best bet is to find out the bands stance on recording, and try and get some sort of policy from them. Most bands in the US have a pre-written 'recording policy' that you can show at a venue if there is a problem. If you're not allowed to record and get caught, usually they will ask you for you minidiscs and batteries. You can usually stay though. I know somebody who was recording David Gray in the Point and was asked to leave, but this is rare. It sounds complicated, but it's not really. There is always the easy option of sticking a computer mic into a standard minidisc recorder. It'll work, but don't expect it to sound good. Hope this helped somewhat. Don't hesitate me to go over anything if it doesn't make sense. I should stress that I'm not an expert in this area, so if anybody feels like correcting me - go right ahead. Jon is probably the most knowledgable in this area, that I can think of.

12-14-2003, 03:52 PM	#4
Funky Avocado Eskimo Regular Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 204	I highly recommend before you buy anything you check out these two sites which I believe are probably the most popular on the net for tapers IMHO: http://www.oade.com/Tapers_Section/index.html http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php As for getting your rig confiscated, I would check with your local laws. In the northeast, USA, they can not take your equipment, only ask you to leave if so inclined. In some states like NY, they are even responsible if they cause any damage to your gear like some pinhead bouncer beating on your gear because he doesn't think you are packing up fast enough. I love NY

12-14-2003, 07:02 PM	#5
dmbit Eskimo Regular Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Italy Posts: 172	Another bad thing of minidiscs, and mp3 players as well, is that they're very sensitive to vibrations, so if you move too much they may skip. The only solution is to be very careful, or to buy a DAT recorder, but they are very expensive. But my suggestion is: don't economize on mics! They are the most important thing. You can have the best recorder with a cheap microphone and it will sound crap. On the other way, with a good microphone you can make decent recordings even on a crappy equipment. Good mics cost a lot, but if you want a good sound, they're the only way (except if you have the permission to take the sound from the soundboard directly, but that should be obvious, isn't it? [img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img]).

12-15-2003, 01:31 AM	#6
slein Le Friophile Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: la Suisse Posts: 106	cheap microphone that can easily be hidden in a button hole of you shirt or in a baseball cap: $ 65 average MD player with two different input sensitivity settings: $ 150. good recording of the 11-4-2003 damien rice concert in munich: priceless [img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img] i even taped an extremely loud Ween concert last week, and the sound is great!