Can we believe Damien?

[deeferdog]

Ok, don't mean to go Damien bashing butsomeone I know who was good friends with Damienwas saying that Damien takes alot of liberties with the truth (and that is putting it mildly). So, I started to ponder the topic and am dismayed at the conclusion I came to.


I know he has told several different "stories" about when this supposed second album is coming outand I even read one a few months ago where he said that he was not going to do a second album becausehe wasn't interested in fame. I'm sorry, butis this not the same man who was on DavidLetterman last week.


To the same extent I was wondering to what degree can we believe the stories he tell us about the inspiration behind his songs.


Don't get me wrong, Ilove Damien and think he is one of the most talented musicians I have ever heard but sometimes I get the impression that heenjoys toying with his fans a bit too much.


Anyway, just wondered what ye thought or do any ofye have any examples of conflicting stories Damien's told at different gigs or in different interviews.

[Miss Pink]

~ponders~ [img]smileys/smiley5.gif[/img]

[Kristi]

[img]smileys/smiley5.gif[/img]... dont know damien personally so have no idea!

[Mario]

Yes.

And no.


Can you believe him when he talks about the new album? Yes. That doesn't mean it will turn out the way he says, but he's never lieing about it, just that things change.


Can you trust him about song meanings. HELL no. Which is cool. And has been going on forever. But, just as an example: Thurs night Amie was about the only dolphin in Ireland, Fri night it was about an inflatable boat he got for christmas.


He's not lieing about song meanings, either. No one wants to hear the same story over and over. I know what Amie's about. If you listen to a couple different intros, you'll know what Amie's about. Its very artistic, he uses a lot of different allegories for the true meaning of Amie. (Hint: Its not about spaceships, shooting stars, dolphins, inflatable rafts, or anything else like that.)

Can you take him prima facie on his word? No. But he's not just f**king with people to f**k with people. His new album plans are changing every few months, and instead of keeping it a secret, he's been telling us each new plan is they change.

[-oli]

a fair point put across (deeferdog)


a fair analagy (mario)


(a poor spelling)

[MIFFY]

I dont think hed deliberately mislead fans either. Hmmm so can we take it that u have gossip then?.. not that id want 2 kno it or anythin, of course im in it purely for the music... i ask 4 d ppl who do!!

[Angela]

If anybody here knows Glen Hansard's story telling.... [img]smileys/smiley36.gif[/img] this thread wouldn't exist.

[northstar]

can we believe politicians and they run the country


he can talk all the crap or truth he likes, just so long as he sings, here's hopin for a second album but until then, i'm still in love with the first!

[deeferdog]

Well, don't want to go into too much but the person I was talking to knows him well from being in the music business and said that he was constantly tell him one thing and then would turn around and do the opposite, at considerable financial cost to this person, but I was just kind of looking at it from the fan's perspective.


And I'm afraid Mario we must agree to disagree. I find being lied to quite patronising. I don't want to hear that a song is based on the first story that pops into his head. If I was in the American audience last night and believed him when he said amie was about a dolphin off the coast of Ireland (of all things) and subsequently found out it wasn't true I would feel quite patronised. You have to wonder is he having a good laugh to himself when gullible fans believe what he is saying. Also, I don't understand how someone can blatantly say in an article a few months ago that he has no interest in fame, how it's all about the music, and more than likely there will be no second album a few weeks before launching an extensive publicity campaign in America. Maybe, I'm completely wrong, maybe I'm right, but I just wanted to hear other people's views on the topic.

[Kristi]

Originally Posted by deeferdog

If I was in the American audience last night and believed him when he said amie was about a dolphin off the coast of Ireland (of all things) and subsequently found out it wasn't true I would feel quite patronised. You have to wonder is he having a good laugh to himself when gullible fans believe what he is saying.

I was part of the american audience, and although i am interested in knowing what his songs are about, i dont feel patronised by Damien telling various stories - he is entertaining the audience. Dont you think its possible that one song could have come about through many different experiences compiled? Or,similar to whatMario said, they are merely stories, but all told with the same underlying meaning?


Like I said, I dont know him personally... but i do think, adding together all the experiences ive heard from people, and even my own small encounter, who have met him and even know him a bit, that he wouldnt be "secretly laughing at the gullible fans" - Damien obviously cares a lot about his fans, or else he wouldnt do a lot of the things he does, and it doesnt seem right in my mind that he would be the type to make a mockery of them.

[Magnus]

Originally Posted by deeferdog

someone I know who ("knows him well from being in the music business and said that he was constantly tell him one thing and then would turn around and do the opposite, at considerable financial cost to this person") was good friends with Damienwas saying that Damien takes alot of liberties with the truth.

There are probably other good friends of Damien Rice that will tell you the opposite. People tend to tell funny things about people they "used to know" - and especially when the people they "used to know"become famous - and especially if they are of the opinion that they have cost them money.

Originally Posted by deeferdog

I started to ponder the topic and am dismayed at the conclusion I came to.

Don't ponderissues of whichyou don't havebasic knowledge. You'll get lost in some imaginary worldsurrounding yourself withwrong conclusions.

Originally Posted by deeferdog

I even read one a few months ago where he said that he was not going to do a second album becausehe wasn't interested in fame.

Don't believe everything you read. Damien has said that he's being constantly misquoted in the press (but has now in most cases stopped bothering).

Originally Posted by deeferdog

To the same extent I was wondering to what degree can we believe the stories he tell us about the inspiration behind his songs.

Do you believeall the storiesthat you read in thebooks? Many of the stories Damien tells are reallygood and add depth and new perspectivesto the songs. I know I can tell 50 different stories about many of the songs I makebecause they tell so many. All of them being equally true, though.

Originally Posted by deeferdog

I get the impression that heenjoys toying with his fans a bit too much.

I am not of that impression.


Sorry if I am being a little harsh here - nothing personal - but it's just that I don't like speculations like that and especially when they invite to further speculations about negative things such as untruthfulness etc. (what is truth anyway?) Even if I had facts to bring to the table, I would have been extremely careful withspreading them here if they were negative.

Originally Posted by LilMis156

Damien obviously cares a lot about his fans, or else he wouldnt do a lot of the things he does, and it doesnt seem right in my mind that he would be the type to make a mockery of them.

I agree totally! I don't know Damien Rice at all, but hemakes musicI like and he seems like a really nice and interestingperson.

[Miss Pink]

i heart damo

[Mario]

*Disclaimer: Im being vague because Im not trying to force what I believe the meaning of Amie to be down anyone's throat.


Look, let me sum it up this way. Amie isn't about a raft or a dolphin or a shooting star or a spaceship. I know what I believe its about, but I'll keep that to myself. But part of this inspiration was a girl (don't even start asking who...) and his relationship with her. And that, in one sense, is all the song is about. So she gave him the inflatable raft one year for christmas, and they saw the dolphin, and he saw a shooting star out of her bedroom window, etc etc etc That doesn't mean he's lieing. And maybe none of those things actually happened. But they are allegories to unlock the true meaning of the song.

Its a hell of a lot more entertaining to hear him weave a story together than to say "This is a song about a girl I loved who didn't love me back."

...oopsEdited by: Mario

[deeferdog]

[quote=Magnus]


Sorry if I am being a little harsh here - nothing personal - but it's just that I don't like speculations like that and especially when they invite to further speculations about negative things such as untruthfulness etc. (what is truth anyway?) Even if I had facts to bring to the table, I would have been extremely careful withspreading them here if they were negative.


I think Damien is a brilliant musician and from his gigs he has always coming across as very amiable and I don't think I was being particularly negative. I just enjoy hearing the true meanings behind his song, I don't think that is so wrong. I was very disheartened to read in that article (in which he extensively talks about his shunning fame) that he wouldn't record again. Maybe he was misquoted, maybe he wasn't. So, I suppose my only option is not to believe any interview I read with him in case the journalistic integrity of the piece has been compromised. As for what is truth anyway, I know multiple mutually exclusive truths can relate to a single primary source (as in the case of music) and it has been about seven years since I studied philosophy, but I sometimes thing this no absolute truth thing can be a bit of a cop out.


Being new to posting on this site, I was very interested to see how people would react to this topic and I thought about it for a very long time before posting it in case I'd rock the boat but I must say i am suprised at the responses.

[Kristi]

Surprised in a good way or a bad one? ... Journalists will sometimes do as they please, edit where they want to, twist words where they desire, take out words, etc in order to have the "best" story to give to their editor...Im curious tho, where did you find this article, isort of remember hearing something about that... Im not saying you were wrong by the way, i was just saying what my view is on the subject.

[cille]

surprised in what way?


edit: hehe, lilmis - two souls, one thought! (danish proverb; hope it'll do in english too)Edited by: supercille

[Kristi]

Originally Posted by supercille

surprised in what way?

[img]smileys/smiley36.gif[/img].. great minds think alike eh??

[cille]

Originally Posted by LilMis156

[img]smileys/smiley36.gif[/img].. great minds think alike eh??

[img]smileys/smiley36.gif[/img]how can i disagree?

[deeferdog]

Originally Posted by supercille

surprised in what way?

I am suprised that people are so quick to dismiss anythingabout someone that deviates even slightly from popular opinion. This is a discussion forum, I don't know Damien personally and I assume most of you don't, maybe he is the loveliest lad you could ever meet maybe he's a d**k, and at the end of the day it doesn't matter a damn because he still writes the best music I' ve ever heard in my life, but I just think it is dangerous to idealise people to the extent that you can't even for a second consider that they mightn't be all that they seem. I just wanted to start up a discussion on a topic that I have been thinking about for the last while to see what other people's opinions are not destroy people's positive perceptions of Damien.

[Mario]

I met Damien last may, before he was anything here in the US.

But thats not what Im basing anything I said upon.

The storytelling thing is something a lot of musicians do. (Michael Stipes, Dave Matthews, etc.) I've listened to as many Damien Rice shows as anyone except the band and Jonathon, and all the contradicting stories I've ever heard all relate to the same issue.

[touchingfreedom]

I've read an article (or was it an interview? i'm not sure) where Damien is described as having said that he doesn't tell the truth in interviews. Like that recent Italian interview - he talks about some girl from Arizona...while a friend of mine'friend in Dublin has said that him and Lisa are still together (this person has also described Damien as being an asshole). So I dunno what to think when I hear him talk about his personal life. But it's all about the music anyway when it comes to Damo

[Mario]

Well, we made it pretty far without Damo-Lisa coming up.

They are not together. Lisa has made it very very public that she and Glen Hansard, the lead singer of The Frames are dating.

[Kristi]

Really? Im behind in the Damo-Lisa-Glen scandal... [img]smileys/smiley9.gif[/img][img]smileys/smiley36.gif[/img]

[marina]

Originally Posted by LilMis156

Surprised in a good way or a bad one? ... Journalists will sometimes do as they please, edit where they want to, twist words where they desire, take out words, etc in order to have the "best" story to give to their editor...Im curious tho, where did you find this article, isort of remember hearing something about that... Im not saying you were wrong by the way, i was just saying what my view is on the subject.

yeah like do ye remember a thread posted a while back about Glen stating in an interview that he was going out with Lisa...when the truth was when he was asked if he was he said 'yes'....then started laughing and said he was only kidding (and this bit wasn't printed in the interview)


i think id prefer not knowing exactly what the meanings behind Damiens songs are, ive only seen Damien live twice, and if he was to tell the same storey both times about each of the songs...then (in my opinion) it would be a little boring...and ifi dont know the actual meaningbehind each song...then i like to try figure out 'i wonder what he means by that'...its a bit more mysterious


and for a fella who claims hedoesn't seek fame...i can understand why he doesn't want the real stories to come out, in fairness who would want the public knowing your intimate feelings like that


well thats just my opinion[img]smileys/smiley1.gif[/img]

[marina]

i guess it just depends on what way you look at it...everyone has their own views, which is what these thread are all about - discussing our opinions, so fair play deeferdog for starting this thread[img]smileys/smiley1.gif[/img]

[andrea02]

Originally Posted by deeferdog

I just wanted to start up a discussion on a topic that I have been thinking about for the last while to see what other people's opinions are not destroy people's positive perceptions of Damien.

Great topic deeferdog! Sharing your opinion is what this discussion forum is all about. Personally, I'm a fan of storytelling...even if the story he tells about a song the nite that I go to a gig is a fib or just a poetic synonym (spelling?) for the truth...it matters not to me. I just like to hear his voice whether he's singing or speaking in that sexy irish accent. As far as articles and whether or not he is misquoted, I tend to take everything in print with a grain of salt unless it's an interview where I can see the words coming out of his mouth. I know that details like release dates change regularly depending on the suits that run the record company so I wouldn't worry too much about the new cd. I have faith that we'll be able to rush to the store to buy it soon. Cheers!

[cille]

Damien could be truthful, could be a liar orcould sometimestell the truth and sometimes tell lies. either way it would be human behaviour. we can all seem like assholes to others for different reasons, so of course damien can also be like that.


his music's great, though, don't you think?[img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img]

[Kristi]

Damiens music isBRILLIANT. [img]smileys/smiley4.gif[/img]... or is it? i could be lieing!

[cille]

Originally Posted by Kristi

Damiens music isBRILLIANT. [img]smileys/smiley4.gif[/img]... or is it? i could be lieing!

[img]smileys/smiley36.gif[/img]

[lonelilly]

yeah, i have read one of the articles (its on EF, actually, under interviews, i don't remember which one!), where he talks about how he came up with the title, "o," and he says that he's made up all kinds of different reasons to tell the press, but who CARES! i personally would have done the same if i were in his shoes, and i know i would probably feel the same about not being sofamous that it's overkill. though he does enjoy talking to his fans now, he still wants to be able to live his life in peace like a normal person someday!!! i respect your opinion, but i must agree that it would be boring to hear the same stories all the time! although, if he was sitting with me and telling me privately... now that would never get old!! [img]smileys/smiley9.gif[/img]