Thank you for denying me the right to answer back, emmett

[Hendrik]

...

Irshad Manji is clear on Islam's hermetic nature: Ask a question and get no answer, especially if you're a woman. Propose interpretation and be told the Koran is the literal word of God--and that the 'hadiths' or secondary sources are likewise not to be questioned, analyzed, interpreted. The source of this closed view is, she says, "desert Islam"--the narrow, harsh Wahabist Islam of Saudi Arabia. Its hermeticism is only increasing. The Koran, according to fundamentalists, can't be translated but must be read in Arabic (some also believe that only Arabs are "real Muslims"), and the Wahabist madressas (religious schools) don't want many people to read it even in Arabic. They don't teach reading but foster illiteracy; their students must learn to recite Koranic verses by rote.

Very interesting: What you can't read, you can't question or analyze or parse. You can't even know there are contradictory Koranic passages of compassion and tolerance toward non-believers and other beliefs. Can they be literally God's words? "The Koran is so profoundly at war with itself," says Manji, "that Muslims who 'live by the book' have no choice but to choose what to emphasize and what to downplay." Unless, of course, they're madressa-trained illiterates who will never know the contradictions exist. Imagine that: a religion with a vested interest in illiteracy. Is that a recipe for backwardness, or what?

Manji says most "moderate Mulims" allow these and other abuses to continue without protest. They remain silent--silent except, Manji says, for "screaming self-pity." Indeed, Muslims are frequently quoted in the New York Times on being maginalized, discriminated against and harmed by "backlash" and Islamophobia. Really? Such reports conspicuously lack anything but accusations and charges; there are never any facts. If Muslims in America in particular and the West in general were being victimized, do you not think you'd have heard about it by now? Manji's view and mine is that Western Muslims either support the abuses of desert Islam--or they are crippled by fear of retirbution.

[PenguinBoy]

the removal of the word blackboard makes no sense to me. are u sure that it is for certain?

a westindian coligue my mother went a restaurante with, told a watress off for calling black tea, black. apparently it's "without milk, or with milk". the waitress listened to a lecture and then apologised.

the colour of your skin does not give you ownership of a word. it's a factor of power as far as i'm conserned.
"i've got so much power that i can make you apologise for a basic colour discroptor"


there is nothing offensive about using a colour discriptor in the use it was created for!

[Iwasatabarwiththis,lady]

[quote=emmett]they are simply unrepresentative of Islam, and the vast majority of Muslim people everywhere who are good, peace loving people. there are bad people everywhere, on all sides, in all religions... i think religion can be a very powerful force for peace and positive thing in someone's life... can inspire great things in people... i don't think we can say 'religion is the root of all the conflict in the world'[quote]


I swear ive heard Ol Tony say exactly these words somewhere 'vast majority blah blah blah'.

Ha.

[Iwasatabarwiththis,lady]

[quote=cille] but we should at least LISTEN, even to the most angry person.QUOTE]


yea, emmett, i think if you leave a thread like the original one, it balances itself up eventually and becomes understanding. Otherwise it just gets messy and Hendrik gets pissed off(more so).

(And people can still read the thread even if it is closed!censorship doesnt really work mate.)

[Timeé]

this is possibly the most boring thread ever. a history and religion lesson?
no thanks

[Iwasatabarwiththis,lady]

thanks for that

[Timeé]

sorry

[Iwasatabarwiththis,lady]

hey, want a more boring thread?

http://eskimofriends.com/forum/showt...owers+daughter

[Miss Pink]

Originally Posted by Hendrik

Now who's the childish one here, hm? Hey, it's alright: thou shalt be forgiven.

I can deal with it, too, by the way.

aggghhhhhh uv really annoyed me, not only have you edited my original post i made you belittle me as well. i don't appreciate it at all. the is the last time i shall post in this thread cause i simple cant stand what you have just done. and i am walking away from the situation.

Hendrik, i read you 1st posts but when u started rambling and ranting on and when post length exceeded the normal length i stopped. i have not done what you have done by insulting ppl left right and centre, you have insulted me and fellow Eskimo's and i for one do not have time for ppl that have no concern for others. I am not childish i simply voiced my opinion where i observed your childish behaviour and commented on it. i do not need you forgiveness and nor do i want it. I am not the one who needs to be forgiven. Your language is inflammatory and has cause my inflamed reaction. i have not read all posts i have read some, and i find yours offensive. Show respect to those around you and respect to this service provider who dug deep into his pockets to fund this forum and to keep us entertained. I appreciate that very much so and i DETEST it when ppl insult Emmett simply for closing an offencive thread. Why pick on 1 thread that was closed and look at the rest that are open,

Hendrik YOU alone have changed my views on YOU. I cant see then changing back any time soon.

[Timeé]

well said

[Closing_Doors]

In all fairness Miss Pink it seems that you are throwing the tantrum rather than Hendrik.

[The Pink Girly]

[quote=jasonAVO]

Originally Posted by The Pink Girly

i said they had their reasons to dislike jews. not a 'right'. but to be blunt, i have a right to dislike anyone for any reason. what i dont have is a right to enforce my beliefs on others , nor to harm others because of my dislike. and yes, that means if someone is a racist that is his/her right to think the way they do. once again though, as long as that right does not infringe upon me. hitler had every right to hate jews for whatever reason. he did not have a right to murder them. thats the difference.

i personally dont think it is right to be a racist. from a moral standpoint. that is different than saying someone has a right to dislike others.

fair enough. I realise that people do have the right to hate people as and when they see fit but i think they are seriously misguided if they think they have "reasons" to hate a race of people. that's all. i wasnt trying to have a dig at you, i can see that you arent racist

[The Pink Girly]

"Is there a universal right to be offensive?
Can speech be free if it diparages a group in society?
Should a secular society bow to the dictates of an apparently implacable religion?
And- principles aside -does poking fun at extremists damage or simply encourage them?"

taken from today's Sunday Times.

[Hendrik]

@Pinky:

aggghhhhhh uv really annoyed me, not only have you edited my original post

Yeah, too shorten the post lenght which clearly overcharged you, sweetheart. No, honestly, I did it to summarise everything in one small post. The rest of your post which i edited was almost the same that i answered. I didn't "censor" it.

Belittle means = to look down at somebody. And why should I do that with you?

you belittle me as well.

I didn't.
I thought sarcasm and irony are things that people in Britain and Ireland use to soften a heated situation?

Hendrik, i read you 1st posts but when u started rambling and ranting on and when post length exceeded the normal length i stopped.

This is the second time that somebody complains about the length of a post. Is that some kind of a running joke or what?

i have not done what you have done by insulting ppl left right and centre, you have insulted me and fellow Eskimo's

Where?

and i for one do not have time for ppl that have no concern for others.

Who are you talking about?

i simply voiced my opinion where i observed your childish behaviour and commented on it. i do not need you forgiveness and nor do i want it. I am not the one who needs to be forgiven. i have not read all posts i have read some, and i find yours offensive.

Pink, how can you expect me taking you 100% serious, if you haven't read all the posts by me concerning this topic (including the other thread as well?

Show respect to those around you and respect to this service provider who dug deep into his pockets to fund this forum and to keep us entertained. I appreciate that very much so and i DETEST it when ppl insult Emmett simply for closing an offencive thread.

I never insulted emmett and still respect him for what he does with this board, you're wrong. If this board is only for entertainment? You better leave this decision to the eskimos or emmett.
Hendrik YOU alone have changed my views on YOU. I cant see then changing back any time soon.

I for one still like ya, I won't do you the favour of hating you now for disagreeing with me.
This is the internet, I don't know you, you don't know me, no reason to get personal.

[*Kat]

Hey, if you don't like the way things are run here, why stay?? Go visit the official site's forum for a while. Debates and heated discussions are welcome. Religious or otherwise. The only threads that have ever been closed to my knowledge are the ones started by random strangers containing links to porn!!

[Vienna]

Originally Posted by Miss Pink

aggghhhhhh uv really annoyed me, not only have you edited my original post i made you belittle me as well. i don't appreciate it at all. the is the last time i shall post in this thread cause i simple cant stand what you have just done. and i am walking away from the situation.

Hendrik, i read you 1st posts but when u started rambling and ranting on and when post length exceeded the normal length i stopped. i have not done what you have done by insulting ppl left right and centre, you have insulted me and fellow Eskimo's and i for one do not have time for ppl that have no concern for others. I am not childish i simply voiced my opinion where i observed your childish behaviour and commented on it. i do not need you forgiveness and nor do i want it. I am not the one who needs to be forgiven. Your language is inflammatory and has cause my inflamed reaction. i have not read all posts i have read some, and i find yours offensive. Show respect to those around you and respect to this service provider who dug deep into his pockets to fund this forum and to keep us entertained. I appreciate that very much so and i DETEST it when ppl insult Emmett simply for closing an offencive thread. Why pick on 1 thread that was closed and look at the rest that are open,

Hendrik YOU alone have changed my views on YOU. I cant see then changing back any time soon.

i have to say i agree with you honey...especially the last statement!

[Uno- X]

This thread is like 2 cats fighting over a dog cookie. Completely useless.

[PolarBearRevolution]

Originally Posted by emmett

As a Hindu I find the above "logo" very offensive, I mean, I know there are only about 800 million of us, but it would be nice if people remembered that it is the world oldest organised religion!

However, that being said, I have to agree with Hendrix on his points about Islam (tho not just Islam) it is a very intolerent religion in much the same way christianity was 300-500 years ago. These cartoons depict the prophet muhammed in a satirical way. The christian and jewish faiths have had to suffer much worse depicitions of the prophets they worship...I mean, the life of brian was very funny, but living in the 20th century my christian (mostly RC) friends were able to realise that is was satire...I mean if you can't laugh at yourself?

[Uno- X]

You find it offensive cos your symbol wasnt included? Oh please...

[PolarBearRevolution]

Originally Posted by Uno- X

You find it offensive cos your symbol wasnt included? Oh please...

Obviously it wasn't clear enough that I was being satirical, ironic considering the topic!

I was simply pointing out the irony of a logo that preaches coexistance yet excludes the worlds oldest religion!

[Uno- X]

It's just a logo ya know

And sure the topic is a big joke indeed!

[cille]

i'm not laffin

anyway, i thought the polar bear revolution was over :-|

[Uno- X]

*shrug* I am though.

[cille]

over?

[Uno- X]

eh?

[cille]

huh?

[Uno- X]

Nevermind. Want a cookie?

[cille]

no thanks, i try to clear my cookies as much as possible when at work...

[Uno- X]

I guess that's good for everyone's sanity.

[jasonAVO]

Originally Posted by Uno- X

It's just a logo ya know

And sure the topic is a big joke indeed!

i think thats the whole point of the thread....that was just a logo. when the poster joked about being offended you said oh please. well, the thread topic is cartoons! they are just cartoons and people ar getting threatened with death. people have been hurt. buildings are being burnt down. over a freakin cartoon. now if the poster knew who you were . or where you were and threatened violence against you over offending him/her. would it be a big joke then?



cille you missed the memo. that is offensive to some muslims. by posting it we have now offended some. emmetts from ireland. burn down the irish consulate now as well. get rid of the pig smilie

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060206/D8FJKE6O0.html

people are dying in the demonstrations against cartoons!


disagree with hendriks. loath him. but at least understand he is actually sticking up for every single person here. i bet if bush had demanded the cartoons be censored there would be bloody hell from the people now bending over backwards not to offend islam.

This is the second time that somebody complains about the length of a post. Is that some kind of a running joke or what?

really. soundbites and headlines. what is the attention span of those complaining of length?


"Is there a universal right to be offensive?

yes.

Can speech be free if it diparages a group in society?

yes

Should a secular society bow to the dictates of an apparently implacable religion?
no

And- principles aside -does poking fun at extremists damage or simply encourage them?"

irrelevant. but curbing our freedoms is definitely encouraging them.

"if i walk into town wearing a tshirt saying "islam is stupid violent cuntish religion." i am most definately going to get beat up and maybe stabbed up. They are not right to do it, and their actions do indeed confirm violence. And i suppose u could say that i was simply expressing my thoughts, and using my freedom of speach. but it wouldn't matter cos i'd be dead."

now if that did happen and people started saying basically you had it coming for insulting them , do you think it more likely to happen more? or if people started coming to your postmortum defense saying you had every right to do so because of freedom and that actions against said freedom were unacceptable and would be punished rather than tolerated , would it happen more or less? appeasement gives power to those you appease. has no one learned from the appeasement of hitler?


what happens when you give a child throwing a fit what he wants? you teach him by throwing that fit that he can get his way by doing so. sometimes it isnt easy saying no and listening to that crying. but in the long run it is certainly better for all involved. we need to stop spoiling people because we dont want to hear them throw a fit. let em throw a fit. id rather keep all of my freedoms.

big shout out to some who are bowing to pressure...



Anne Owers, Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Prisons, for prohibiting the flying of the English national flag in English prisons on the grounds that it shows the cross of St. George, which was used by the Crusaders and thus is offensive to Muslims


to burger king for deciding to stop selling a certain ice cream because the label 'offended' a muslim.


to france...
In Strasbourg, pork soup was banned this month after officials deemed it could disrupt public order.

"Schemes with racial subtexts must be denounced," said a statement by Strasbourg Mayor Fabienne Keller.

More than a dozen police surrounded volunteers at a recent soup distribution at Paris' Montparnasse train station. Once police determined there was pork in the broth, they ordered the 10-gallon container sealed because the group had no permit.

There has been no outright ban on pork soup giveaways in Paris, but police have been using the permit issue as a way to shut down the kitchens and avert racial tensions.

see pork is pig. next i wont be able to buy a god damn....sorry christians, a gosh dern ham sandwich.
yup cant have people giving away free ****in pork soup to homeless! even that offends some. there are other instance where groups are trying to get restaurants to get certain food items of menus.

and a big f you shout out to the american media. who has no balls to post in their papers the cartoons where readers are surely scratching their heads going...well what s all the hubbub over? can i see? nope. not in the supposedly freest nation on earth. no NBC wont show a cartoon offensive to muslims but...
Thus, NBC is celebrating Easter this year with a special edition of the gay sitcom "Will & Grace," in which a Christian conservative cooking-show host, played by the popular singing slattern Britney Spears, offers seasonal recipes -- "Cruci-fixin's." On the other hand, the same network, in its coverage of the global riots over the Danish cartoons, has declined to show any of the offending artwork out of "respect" for the Muslim faith.


one way of looking at this says...well, we shouldnt be offending them. the other says...you dont like it dont frickin eat it or dont watch it. one has choice involved. the other does not. i'll take the way involving choice even if some others choices are offensive to me.

jason

"Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-- Thomas Paine, The Crisis Number IV