New Album Spring 2012

[davidcotyalex]

sadly I must admit I actually agree with mario on many levels..........but for me it is simply just disappointment and no hostility.........kinda sad that the devils that propelled so much of the genius in his youth still plague him to this day - so to that regard more empathetic to his struggles as a human trying to make a sense of it in this crazy world

that said Mario makes a very good point that he is a public figure and as such puts himself out there - both for love and critique - especially if he is going to toy with you - I write that off to immaturity - much as I do Oliver's apparent joy in making himself sound cool on the internet...........like proclaiming to be the troubadour for the occupy movement but really not doing anything after putting it out there (http://oliverhasse.com/?lang=en)............just sayin

[T-Lloyd]

Originally Posted by davidcotyalex

sadly I must admit I actually agree with mario on many levels..........but for me it is simply just disappointment and no hostility.........kinda sad that the devils that propelled so much of the genius in his youth still plague him to this day - so to that regard more empathetic to his struggles as a human trying to make a sense of it in this crazy world

that said Mario makes a very good point that he is a public figure and as such puts himself out there - both for love and critique - especially if he is going to toy with you - I write that off to immaturity - much as I do Oliver's apparent joy in making himself sound cool on the internet...........like proclaiming to be the troubadour for the occupy movement but really not doing anything after putting it out there (http://oliverhasse.com/?lang=en)............just sayin

That's a really good way to look at the issue: "Disappointment and no hostility"....getting angry about it doesn't change anything and just wastes time that you could have spent doing things that make you happy; so it's great that you can view it like that. Ofcourse its disappointing to all of us Damien Rice fans to be toyed with unfufilled release dates and contradicting news. But I guess I just try not to let that stuff bother me because no amount of me getting angry or whinging about it is going to change it. So since I have no power to change these said issues; there's no point me putting in the negative energy to let it bother me.

[verenita]

i was trying to stay away, but, on the other hand, i wanted to post this phrase several times... so, i´m finally doing it:
"When you learn to accept instead of expect, you'll have fewer disappointments", from The knight in rusty armor.

i´m not defending damien (he doesn´t need nor want that)... it´s just this line applies to many many things in life in so many different levels.

i understand mario´s thoughts/opinions (who am i to deny them or say that he´s wrong?, i´m just not him) and everyone else´s... but i think it´s just pointless to make the same statements over and over again, when they clearly go in the opposite direction... and that is just fine

peace and blessings to everyone.

[borneoman]

I'm also staying out, cos as David put it, the dialogue has not been very gentlemanly (not sure if that's a word, but love it) but in all honesty, I'm really surprised/shocked at how angry and bitter some of you guys sound... I really don't understand it, cannot really figure out... cos I can understand people being disappointed, people being frustrated... but I really cannot understand the anger and bitterness, going from idolising someone to hating him with all your guts
there's many artists that I like that haven't released anything for ages and have been promising albums forever. like I was reading today about the guy from My Blood Valentine, who've released nothing, nada, since 1991 and he was just saying that the record he start recording then it's almost finished... ehem... am I frustrated? probably... Angry? Nope, and I really don't get how can anyone be... same with many bands...
and of course everyone is free to post what they feel, but another thing I don't get is the need to go online on a forum to post how much you hate someone that you used to like. I've grown off many many artists... doubt you find a biggest Tori Amos fan around, used to follow her for entire tours, collect everything, collected live performance, even was admin in a site... but then she lost it musically, her new stuff is not bad but it's not the same, so slowly i've backed off, stopped being an admin, I'm not even in any website, don't collect live concerts anymore... but never ever I've felt the need to go online and rant about how she's lost it. Just slowly backed off. And many many artists have disappointed me lately. I love William Fitzsimmons but his last album is so bad that the other day I was cleaning up and I threw it to the garbage, despite it being the deluxe edition and having costed me like 20E. Same could apply to David Gray, Laura Marling or Ray Lamontagne But I didn't go to their site and started a rant.

Which doesn't mean that we shouldn't be critic. Damien is not mr perfect and he's released a bunch of crappy songs too. But there's a difference between dicussing critically about an artist that you like and ranting about someone that you used to like but now you hate, it's not the same to me...

[Canadian Island]

Originally Posted by davidcotyalex

I write that off to immaturity - much as I do Oliver's apparent joy in making himself sound cool on the internet...........like proclaiming to be the troubadour for the occupy movement but really not doing anything after putting it out there (http://oliverhasse.com/?lang=en)............just sayin

Being immature brought me some of the best moments in my life.

Well, you know... I never proclaimed myself THE troubadour of anything but myself. Also just because I didn't write about it on the internet (yet), that doesn't mean nothing happened. Sometimes in life things happen and you don't follow initial impulses. First I was really into that thing. I still am on some level. (And whenever I am really into something I tend to fall REALLY into it for while and sometimes push and pull too hard, okay...) And then something else came and something else and so on. And suddenly for a while I wasn't in the position to do such things, but you can't know that. So I'll try to take no offense from you seeing that as immaturity. Summer's coming. Please be patient with me on that one!

[davidcotyalex]

Originally Posted by T-Lloyd

That's a really good way to look at the issue: "Disappointment and no hostility"....getting angry about it doesn't change anything and just wastes time that you could have spent doing things that make you happy; so it's great that you can view it like that. Ofcourse its disappointing to all of us Damien Rice fans to be toyed with unfufilled release dates and contradicting news. But I guess I just try not to let that stuff bother me because no amount of me getting angry or whinging about it is going to change it. So since I have no power to change these said issues; there's no point me putting in the negative energy to let it bother me.

thanks..........and I must say well done on your response to my "rebuke" - you handled it with class and grace which I am sure is way beyond what I would have done so welcome to the board - and please do speak up more than watch - you clearly have a good voice

love seeing marti's and ver's responses - they make you smile - and absolutely

and ver I don't think I ever mentioned it but the coty in my name is maria who is from montevideo - we need to get back down sometime soon and absolutely want to get to BA - so if you are anywhere near there we will buy you a nice wine!

[davidcotyalex]

Originally Posted by Canadian Island

Being immature brought me some of the best moments in my life.

Well, you know... I never proclaimed myself THE troubadour of anything but myself. Also just because I didn't write about it on the internet (yet), that doesn't mean nothing happened. Sometimes in life things happen and you don't follow initial impulses. First I was really into that thing. I still am on some level. (And whenever I am really into something I tend to fall REALLY into it for while and sometimes push and pull too hard, okay...) And then something else came and something else and so on. And suddenly for a while I wasn't in the position to do such things, but you can't know that. So I'll try to take no offense from you seeing that as immaturity. Summer's coming. Please be patient with me on that one!

fair enough...........i figured october to april was long enough but to your point it pales in comparison to a lifetime..........down here in texas it feels like summer is just about here already! oy!

[davidcotyalex]

oh and marti sorry about tori - I didn't realize that happened - I do remember well how much you liked her

[T-Lloyd]

Originally Posted by davidcotyalex

thanks..........and I must say well done on your response to my "rebuke" - you handled it with class and grace which I am sure is way beyond what I would have done so welcome to the board - and please do speak up more than watch - you clearly have a good voice

love seeing marti's and ver's responses - they make you smile - and absolutely

and ver I don't think I ever mentioned it but the coty in my name is maria who is from montevideo - we need to get back down sometime soon and absolutely want to get to BA - so if you are anywhere near there we will buy you a nice wine!

Thanks for that mate, will definitely get more involved on the site in the future; it's great to see a lot of strong intellectual minds like your own on here sharing their thoughts! I'm looking forward to learning a thing or two. Shot.

[T-Lloyd]

Originally Posted by borneoman

Same could apply to David Gray, Laura Marling or Ray Lamontagne But I didn't go to their site and started a rant....

That's a shame that you've gone off Ray, is it that you don't like the new Ray Lamontagne stuff? I really got into "God willing and the creed don't rise" eh. Not so much the album before that "Gossip in the grain" (Which has a few amazing songs still). But I think some of his best stuff came from his last album eh. Tracks like "New York City's killing me", "Are we really through" and "Like rock n roll and radio" are absolutely beautiful eh. Think he's still got a lot of talent and I still think we haven't heard the best of him yet! Here's hoping.

[davidcotyalex]

absolutely on ray - I thought he got corrupted by his label or whomever on gossip - particularly the way they did up "you are the best thing" - but even that cd had winter birds and hey me hey mama and a few others that are very good - I do think he found his way back with god willin - great cd

my only issue with ray is he just cancelled his appearance at the walk the line johnny cash tribute gig - gutted as he was the main reason we are going....ah well should be great anyway

now DG.......he could release an album of christmas songs and I would still be going absolutely berserk! lol but if the three new songs that he shared with us at sundance are any indication I don't think I have much to worry about..........

[Undocorkscrew]

When you say "I'm making a new album, come pay money to participate" and then deny having said it, you've broken the moral imperative of being truthful to your fans."

Just so I don't have to go back and read this entire thread, can you elaborate on that a bit? I obviously don't follow him as closely as others, so I don't remember him announcing an album and then saying he didn't announce an album.

I'd love to chime in with some thoughts on what I have read though, I just don't know Damien Rice personally like so many here do. But since I'm so riled up now, I'm off to the Adam Lambert boards to give that prick a piece of my mind! I dislike him and his music, but what the hell?

[T-Lloyd]

Originally Posted by davidcotyalex

absolutely on ray - I thought he got corrupted by his label or whomever on gossip - particularly the way they did up "you are the best thing" - but even that cd had winter birds and hey me hey mama and a few others that are very good - I do think he found his way back with god willin - great cd

my only issue with ray is he just cancelled his appearance at the walk the line johnny cash tribute gig - gutted as he was the main reason we are going....ah well should be great anyway

now DG.......he could release an album of christmas songs and I would still be going absolutely berserk! lol but if the three new songs that he shared with us at sundance are any indication I don't think I have much to worry about..........

Yeah man for sure! I love "you are the best thing" but it just doesn't fit on the album. Its great as a single or would be great if the rest of the album was like that....but when the next track is "Let it be me" its just too different of a tonal and emotion shift eh. But yeah, does still have some great moments. But to me his best is still "Til the sun turns black"; that album is absolutely stunning and feels so complete!

That sucks he pulled out of that tribute gig though! Same thing happened to me with Damien Rice back in 2007 (Pulled out of splendour in the grass). He was the main reason I was traveling to Aussie from NZ to go to the festival, but he pulled out the night before we left! I was so gutted I threw my copy of "0" at the wall and broke it. Obviously i've got alot more chilled out since those days tho hahaha! Still haven't had a chance to see him tho!

Maybe I need to get back into DG, I haven't listened to him since Life in slow motion. I liked that album, but prefered his earlier stuff so I just kinda stopped listening to his albums after that eh. Maybe I need to check the later stuff out! Any tracks you recommend checking out from his last 2 albums? Shot

[davidcotyalex]

Originally Posted by T-Lloyd

Yeah man for sure! I love "you are the best thing" but it just doesn't fit on the album. Its great as a single or would be great if the rest of the album was like that....but when the next track is "Let it be me" its just too different of a tonal and emotion shift eh. But yeah, does still have some great moments. But to me his best is still "Til the sun turns black"; that album is absolutely stunning and feels so complete!

That sucks he pulled out of that tribute gig though! Same thing happened to me with Damien Rice back in 2007 (Pulled out of splendour in the grass). He was the main reason I was traveling to Aussie from NZ to go to the festival, but he pulled out the night before we left! I was so gutted I threw my copy of "0" at the wall and broke it. Obviously i've got alot more chilled out since those days tho hahaha! Still haven't had a chance to see him tho!

Maybe I need to get back into DG, I haven't listened to him since Life in slow motion. I liked that album, but prefered his earlier stuff so I just kinda stopped listening to his albums after that eh. Maybe I need to check the later stuff out! Any tracks you recommend checking out from his last 2 albums? Shot

ahhh of course now on the mate (slow learner)...............and absolutely on ttstb - my ray favorite as a complete album of course there are also the bone chillers from trouble

damien is exceptional live - especially when he is pissed or on it - which actually was like every time i saw him becasue I don't recall anything but great shows (it is becomming more distant unfortunately) - but I think we saw around 10 and they were all just great - so i hang around and wait with all the rest here lol

so DG split with clune 5 years ago - the goofy drummer that was very much a part of his earlier success - but also was a force toward more "poppy" stuff - he left after life in slow motion - since then DG released a cover cd (which is awesome - 1000 miles behind) and then Draw the Line and Foundling - two very different cds with dtl more upbeat and foundling his astral weeks if you will - he has definitely gone much more acoustic and his last "lost & found" tour highlighted that

and he continues - check out one of his newest songs that we were so lucky to catch at sundance this year - was two of the most awesome DG gigs I have been to - solo acoustic on guitar and keyboard - in a tiny art gallery

Force of Nature



here is one from dtl that I really like

Kathleen - look how happy he is in the beginning - and this with rob malone his long time bass and a return with neill MacColl since the clune shake-up - all very good if you ask me - and keith pryor the replacement on drums replaced james brown as the hardes working man in show biz lol



and finally from foundling

holding on



seems like getting all the way back to century ends if you ask me! looking really forward to the new cd - we hope for it in the fall/winter - already have three new ones from sundance and one other he has been playing a little - so we already have potentially four.............

going to spend a week touring in the summer - looks like detroit, my hometown of chicago, minneapolis and dayton ohio of all places lol - should be great

let me know what you think

sorry to corrupt this lively thread with a DG commercial but we certainly have been far lower a page or two back lmfao

[davidcotyalex]

oh and for those diehards like myself we have been sprinkled with greatness like gatheirng dust, falling free, coming down etc - and then in vegas a month ago they ripped into an incredibly loud late night radio > faster sooner now that was spectacular

I am the idiot with the YEAHHHHHHHHHHH WOO HOO can you believe this at the beginning..........I was a tad excited



he lost his voice after this one..........you can tell a little as he gets a bit raspy at the end

the greatness of dg is I will go to four gigs in six days and each one will be totally unique - the half full guy will say with a lot of regulars however - for me that is expected and he still mixes up the order inside the set list so its all good

[T-Lloyd]

Originally Posted by davidcotyalex

so DG split with clune 5 years ago - the goofy drummer that was very much a part of his earlier success - but also was a force toward more "poppy" stuff - he left after life in slow motion - since then DG released a cover cd (which is awesome - 1000 miles behind) and then Draw the Line and Foundling - two very different cds with dtl more upbeat and foundling his astral weeks if you will - he has definitely gone much more acoustic and his last "lost & found" tour highlighted that

and he continues - check out one of his newest songs that we were so lucky to catch at sundance this year - was two of the most awesome DG gigs I have been to - solo acoustic on guitar and keyboard - in a tiny art gallery

Man that's awesome! Cheers for sharing mate, was great hearing some new DG. Kathleen and Force of Nature were especially amazing! Might have to pull out some of my old DG albums and give them a spin today; you've got him stuck in my head....especially Kathleen; that's gunna be playing in my head all day haha! That Late Night Radio was insane as well, such a great tune!

Originally Posted by davidcotyalex

and absolutely on ttstb - my ray favorite as a complete album of course there are also the bone chillers from trouble

Yeah man, Trouble definitely has some bone chillers! Hannah probably has some of the most tender lyrics of all time, that one line especially gets stuck in my head atleast once a week: "I'll put down this bottle of wine, if you just be kind to me"....that is some beautifully honest and amazing but simple poetry right there. I lost that album years ago; need to go out and re-buy it eh! Shot

[T-Lloyd]

Originally Posted by davidcotyalex

sorry to corrupt this lively thread with a DG commercial but we certainly have been far lower a page or two back lmfao

Hahaha indeed! After all that intense and thought provoking debating; I think a nice little positive DG Commercial is exactly what this thread needs! It definitely put a smile on my face anyway haha. Cheers

[davidcotyalex]

Originally Posted by T-Lloyd

Hahaha indeed! After all that intense and thought provoking debating; I think a nice little positive DG Commercial is exactly what this thread needs! It definitely put a smile on my face anyway haha. Cheers

sweet!! just home after a good week of travel...............in the while I think we have a tour coming together........four DG shows this summer - will post some deets for those that care!

better yet come say hey over at davidgray.com.............over there I am a nicer breed - here i maintain some obligation to get sister midnight to continue telling me to go feck myself

[radiohead33]

some of these posts are almost hallucinatory in nature. Yes Ray on Gossip, is alot different than ray on trouble and Till the Sun. But i think you have to be insane to think Ray has conducted anything in his career in terms of what fans or critics or the label wants. If you are of the belief he does care, you arent knowledgeable about ray, period. He's another guy, i forget who i was in a multipage argument with a month ago about damien, but damien and ray are similar. Ray is the type of guy who doesnt give a crap about what fans want or what anyone wants. He just flat out doesnt care. Hes not tweeting how far he is on album 5, he's not trying to please fans, and he's not out to live the fast paced rich lifestyle. the guy lives on like 100 acres, in an old farmhouse.

Ray is the perfect example of all this. Damien isnt unique. Ray wont be telling us about album 5, he wont be giving us updates. And he doesnt owe us any of that. He makes albums, he tours, and when he;s not doing that he;s with his wife and kids in vermont. The idea that Ray owes us anything, that he owes us an album 5, that he owes us tours, that he owes us interviews, rays been very public and open about his dislike of the industry and the machine. He wants to make music. anything else he isnt interested in. and the guys made 4 beautiful records. I dont think he owes us a damn thing

And thats sort of the outrageous thing about this. If you were to say to any artist, let alone ray or damien, "you owe us", they'd probably curse you out, or hit you, and frankly with good reason. Ray didnt become a musician to please us, or you, or the label. neither did damien. why would they suddenly change that?

[radiohead33]

i think part of it also is being aware that part of being an artist, actually a huge part of it, is trying new things, experimenting, doing something new. Im not unique. i have my favorite era of Radiohead or Dylan, or Bruce, or The Beatles. I have my favorite albums and periods of those artists. But i also know, that art is about pushing the boundaries. That art would get boring if an artist made the same book, or movie, or album over and over again. I think thats a universal aspect of being a creative person, being aware that ultimately, you create the work not for others, but to satisfy yourself or your own curiousity, or to see how far you can push yourself. All great artists share that goal. Damien and Ray are great artists, and i dont imagine damien is making music that sounds like 0, and Ray's 4th album sounds nothing like Trouble. They didnt change their sounds to make money, to get rich, to be famous, to gain fans. they did it to satisfy their own creative desires and ideas. certainly yes, some artists do change their sound to get famous and rich. but there are bankers and managers and people in every profession who fit that profile as well. However damien and ray are not those people.

[T-Lloyd]

Originally Posted by radiohead33

some of these posts are almost hallucinatory in nature. Yes Ray on Gossip, is alot different than ray on trouble and Till the Sun. But i think you have to be insane to think Ray has conducted anything in his career in terms of what fans or critics or the label wants. If you are of the belief he does care, you arent knowledgeable about ray, period. He's another guy, i forget who i was in a multipage argument with a month ago about damien, but damien and ray are similar. Ray is the type of guy who doesnt give a crap about what fans want or what anyone wants. He just flat out doesnt care. Hes not tweeting how far he is on album 5, he's not trying to please fans, and he's not out to live the fast paced rich lifestyle. the guy lives on like 100 acres, in an old farmhouse.

Ray is the perfect example of all this. Damien isnt unique. Ray wont be telling us about album 5, he wont be giving us updates. And he doesnt owe us any of that. He makes albums, he tours, and when he;s not doing that he;s with his wife and kids in vermont. The idea that Ray owes us anything, that he owes us an album 5, that he owes us tours, that he owes us interviews, rays been very public and open about his dislike of the industry and the machine. He wants to make music. anything else he isnt interested in. and the guys made 4 beautiful records. I dont think he owes us a damn thing

And thats sort of the outrageous thing about this. If you were to say to any artist, let alone ray or damien, "you owe us", they'd probably curse you out, or hit you, and frankly with good reason. Ray didnt become a musician to please us, or you, or the label. neither did damien. why would they suddenly change that?

I'm trying to figure out why you flew off the handle about Ray lol? Didn't realise anyone suggested he owes us anything or that he has lost his artistic integrity throughout his career? Thought it was all pretty positive stuff written about Ray and thought we kinda managed to deflate the negative buzz; but here it is trying to come back again haha

[radiohead33]

davidcotealex wrote-


absolutely on ray - I thought he got corrupted by his label or whomever on gossip - particularly the way they did up "you are the best thing" - but even that cd had winter birds and hey me hey mama and a few others that are very good - I do think he found his way back with god willin - great cd

[mario_d]

So now that Fiona Apple released new music today I'm allowed to bag on Damien, right?

And somehow she managed not to spew nonsense releasing stuff for the last seven years or do famewhoring interviews with the press... she just went away and shutup, like Damien should.

[radiohead33]

Originally Posted by mario_d

So now that Fiona Apple released new music today I'm allowed to bag on Damien, right?

And somehow she managed not to spew nonsense releasing stuff for the last seven years or do famewhoring interviews with the press... she just went away and shutup, like Damien should.

its amusing and bizaare how you seem to think that just because an artist says an album is coming alone, or out, that the artist then IS MORALLY AND CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED to produce and put out that album. Are you familiar with Dr Dre's long awaited and mythic 3rd album Detox? We've been promised that record for over a decade. I cant count the amount of times ive heard the album is coming out in a few months. After Kanye released his album in 2010, he suggested he was planning on releasing a solo album in the summer and a Jay-z collab album. The jay-z album was released, but the album that summer came and went, he didnt release it. The Beach Boys Smile album was promised by Brian Wilson back in 1966. It took over 40 years for it to be released finally.

Things happen. Artists move on to other projects. or scrap the results. Or run into problems at the label, or in their personal lives. Some artists can create art out of tragedy, others cant. Some artists experience writers block and their muse leaves them. Thats a part of the creative process. its part of being an artist. And all artists go through it. Deniro goes through it, as does the amateur screenwriter who writes when they get home from work as a gas station attendent. None of those artists owe anyone anything. Life happens.

Fiona Apple could the day she releases her new album, say "im going to release a 2nd part to this record in the winter". by saying that she isnt required to do anything. at all. she owes no one anything.

the amount of ways artists conduct their personal and private lives is equal to the amount of artists in the world. Everyone lives it differently. So some artists like Ray Lamontagne prefer solitude and to be left alone. Others, seem to be continually in the press. I dont think ones better than the other. I think you have to be a grown up and be aware artists conduct their lives how they want to conduct them. To try and alter than is pure folly. Anyone one thinks by posting on this board they can convince damien to release an album sooner, they had better get to a doctor quick if they feel thats the case.

damien could have a myriad of reasons for setting dates or making speculations and not producing work. Chief among them I assume would be maybe, his belief that the work he produced for the Barcelona thing and everything else wasnt up to snuff. Would have been silly for him, and reductive to release anything he wasnt proud of. I also assume he's grappling with Lisa and what happened. Maybe he's been unable to accurately create songs that describe how he felt about how things went down in Munich. Setting deadlines also gives artists a goal, pushes them to do the work. Maybe he was unable to meet the deadline, and if he did meet it, he may have been unsatisfied with the resulting songs. He could have gone through some sort of personal or family emergency or tragedy we know nothing about. He may have become less interested in music and has been spending most of his time pursuing some other creative avenue. Its possible, he felt his songs for Barcelona and everything else werent personal enough or were TOO personal. Its possible he wants to release albums with this much space in between now. Bands like Tool, or Kate Bush take 5 plus years between albums. Thats normal for them. Maybe this is his process, taking this long between album.

[mario_d]

Yes, defend Damien by pointing to Dr Dre and Kanye. Two of the biggest assholes in music. That pretty much says it all. "He's never performed a human sacrifice on stage, your criticism just shows you don't understand Art."

Damien's a lazy asshole who makes statements and promises and then complains when people ask him about those promises and denies making them. Stop denying it.

And you've been trolling this board for YEARS. This comment from 2009 is about you.

http://www.eskimofriends.com/forum/s...7&postcount=47

Originally Posted by SisterMidnight

I started to report the poster of this thread, but I felt like it would fall on deaf ears. I flagged him as a troll who intentionally posts provocative threads in the past (though most were lost in the great crash of '08) and no action was taken. He wasn't banned or anything and is obviously still up to his old tricks, so it seemed futile.. administrative action on banning and these kind of issues seems very arbitrary to me, especially lately.

[Spamlet]

I'm probably one of the few people in here who has actually hung out with Mario. When i went to Philly years ago to see Damo play twice he was kind enough to host me for my whole trip and even drove me around and showed me the sights and introduced me to his friends etc. So I'm particularly fond of him and know him to be generous and kind.

I've also, over the years, had more than my fair share of people who mistook my passion for this artist's work for anger or arrogance or what have you because intent or tone don't always translate well in print or onto a computer screen.

Some additionally thought it was pretentious for treating his lyrics as a professor of Shakespeare might to analyze and further appreciate more of their complex meaning (guilty as charged since I view both as truly brilliant poets worthy of such scrutiny and my background is in drama and academia). In short, I get it and I've certainly been on the side of the criticized plenty of times.

None of that is relevant, though, in terms of whether someone else has the right to disagree with anyone on this site, regardless of seniority or lack of it.

This is also not an attempt to pile on but merely an invitation to take another look at what's really being said and expressed and whether that is supported by what's previously been said or not.

Mario, my friend, I simply don't buy the argument in this case since you've been acting in an unreasonable fashion by not utilizing your common sense in the equating of a cause to its effect.

Pretzel logic really doesn't become you but there's probably not a person alive who could convince me that someone who's only interested in getting rich would forsake the means to obtain far more wealth for years at a time while simultaneously donating nearly all their professional time to raising it to give to charity or volunteering to work on their friends' under-supported projects.

Nor could they adequately explain why a man who had achieved massive success and adoration would choose to walk away at the height of their power and exposure to go anonymously plant tomatoes in a foreign country if all he cared about was becoming more famous.

It's a willful denial of the facts being presented right in front of you as though you walked in on a bored old prostitute in the midst of being ****ed for the millionth time and declared "well, obviously, she's still a virgin".

That line is pretty clear cut. This one isn't: Damien Rice is both a corporation and an artist.

He is an artist by choice and a corporation by necessity. He is not only one or the other because when he ceased being unknown that became an impossibility if he wanted to share his music in the way he felt was most just.

As many here have alluded, life is a skilled pitcher who just happens to love throwing curve-balls at us all on a daily basis. We need look no further than to go back to the source of these complaints: Ten Days To Barcelona.

In a nutshell, Damo wrote that he and his friends planned to travel by car to Spain to see Radiohead in concert and it should take them roughly 10 days to do so. En route, they would record a song each day and record both the trip and process itself on film to keep us up to date on the developments. The plan looked great on paper but they soon realized that their car was too small to contain everything they wanted to take so they were forced to minimize their possessions. I personally don't view that fact as being disrespectful to either the car or their extra luggage despite a clear deviation from what they intended.

Undaunted, they squeezed what they could fit in and for the first half of the journey things were appearing to go quite smoothly. Snippets of songs were posted and it was pretty fun to feel along, in part, for the ride.

Then their car unexpectedly broke down and getting it repaired was going to mean they'd have to be delayed. I don't view this as being disrespectful behavior by them or the car toward Radiohead or Spain or the road they couldn't then drive on.

Despite the setback, Damo appeared to still press on with the music side of the journey. This shows me that he always sincerely believed in the idea and he felt at the time that it was still working. Therefore I don't perceive any attempt by him to deceive or betray his fans. The trip just didn't go as planned. Life rarely does. i doubt you would accuse the captain of the Titanic of deliberately steering into an iceberg just so he could become famous or cause a great film to become a huge moneymaker one day.

Accusing Damien Rice of being more interested in making money than in making music than he can be satisfied with makes just about as much sense.

If, in say just this past year, due to new information or something unexpected occurring you ended up changing course about something that didn't involve breaking a law then I hope no one accused you of being anything less than a normal human being for doing so.

If you've ever told someone that you loved them and would continue to forever but then you ended up drifting apart or mutually realized you were not meant to be together for eternity I hope neither you nor they blamed the other for being abusive or disrespectful for doing so. It just meant you couldn't predict the future.

Blaming Damien Rice for perhaps not feeling the same way now about something he had expressed he felt certain of in the past makes just about as much sense.

[T-Lloyd]

Originally Posted by Spamlet

I'm probably one of the few people in here who has actually hung out with Mario. When i went to Philly years ago to see Damo play twice he was kind enough to host me for my whole trip and even drove me around and showed me the sights and introduced me to his friends etc. So I'm particularly fond of him and know him to be generous and kind.

I've also, over the years, had more than my fair share of people who mistook my passion for this artist's work for anger or arrogance or what have you because intent or tone don't always translate well in print or onto a computer screen.

Some additionally thought it was pretentious for treating his lyrics as a professor of Shakespeare might to analyze and further appreciate more of their complex meaning (guilty as charged since I view both as truly brilliant poets worthy of such scrutiny and my background is in drama and academia). In short, I get it and I've certainly been on the side of the criticized plenty of times.

None of that is relevant, though, in terms of whether someone else has the right to disagree with anyone on this site, regardless of seniority or lack of it.

This is also not an attempt to pile on but merely an invitation to take another look at what's really being said and expressed and whether that is supported by what's previously been said or not.

Mario, my friend, I simply don't buy the argument in this case since you've been acting in an unreasonable fashion by not utilizing your common sense in the equating of a cause to its effect.

Pretzel logic really doesn't become you but there's probably not a person alive who could convince me that someone who's only interested in getting rich would forsake the means to obtain far more wealth for years at a time while simultaneously donating nearly all their professional time to raising it to give to charity or volunteering to work on their friends' under-supported projects.

Nor could they adequately explain why a man who had achieved massive success and adoration would choose to walk away at the height of their power and exposure to go anonymously plant tomatoes in a foreign country if all he cared about was becoming more famous.

It's a willful denial of the facts being presented right in front of you as though you walked in on a bored old prostitute in the midst of being ****ed for the millionth time and declared "well, obviously, she's still a virgin".

That line is pretty clear cut. This one isn't: Damien Rice is both a corporation and an artist.

He is an artist by choice and a corporation by necessity. He is not only one or the other because when he ceased being unknown that became an impossibility if he wanted to share his music in the way he felt was most just.

As many here have alluded, life is a skilled pitcher who just happens to love throwing curve-balls at us all on a daily basis. We need look no further than to go back to the source of these complaints: Ten Days To Barcelona.

In a nutshell, Damo wrote that he and his friends planned to travel by car to Spain to see Radiohead in concert and it should take them roughly 10 days to do so. En route, they would record a song each day and record both the trip and process itself on film to keep us up to date on the developments. The plan looked great on paper but they soon realized that their car was too small to contain everything they wanted to take so they were forced to minimize their possessions. I personally don't view that fact as being disrespectful to either the car or their extra luggage despite a clear deviation from what they intended.

Undaunted, they squeezed what they could fit in and for the first half of the journey things were appearing to go quite smoothly. Snippets of songs were posted and it was pretty fun to feel along, in part, for the ride.

Then their car unexpectedly broke down and getting it repaired was going to mean they'd have to be delayed. I don't view this as being disrespectful behavior by them or the car toward Radiohead or Spain or the road they couldn't then drive on.

Despite the setback, Damo appeared to still press on with the music side of the journey. This shows me that he always sincerely believed in the idea and he felt at the time that it was still working. Therefore I don't perceive any attempt by him to deceive or betray his fans. The trip just didn't go as planned. Life rarely does. i doubt you would accuse the captain of the Titanic of deliberately steering into an iceberg just so he could become famous or cause a great film to become a huge moneymaker one day.

Accusing Damien Rice of being more interested in making money than in making music than he can be satisfied with makes just about as much sense.

If, in say just this past year, due to new information or something unexpected occurring you ended up changing course about something that didn't involve breaking a law then I hope no one accused you of being anything less than a normal human being for doing so.

If you've ever told someone that you loved them and would continue to forever but then you ended up drifting apart or mutually realized you were not meant to be together for eternity I hope neither you nor they blamed the other for being abusive or disrespectful for doing so. It just meant you couldn't predict the future.

Blaming Damien Rice for perhaps not feeling the same way now about something he had expressed he felt certain of in the past makes just about as much sense.

Very well said and very well written! I completely agree! I love it when composed thought, logic and controlled emotion comes through so strong and clear! Good work.

[davidcotyalex]

Originally Posted by radiohead33

some of these posts are almost hallucinatory in nature. Yes Ray on Gossip, is alot different than ray on trouble and Till the Sun. But i think you have to be insane to think Ray has conducted anything in his career in terms of what fans or critics or the label wants. If you are of the belief he does care, you arent knowledgeable about ray, period. He's another guy, i forget who i was in a multipage argument with a month ago about damien, but damien and ray are similar. Ray is the type of guy who doesnt give a crap about what fans want or what anyone wants. He just flat out doesnt care. Hes not tweeting how far he is on album 5, he's not trying to please fans, and he's not out to live the fast paced rich lifestyle. the guy lives on like 100 acres, in an old farmhouse.

Ray is the perfect example of all this. Damien isnt unique. Ray wont be telling us about album 5, he wont be giving us updates. And he doesnt owe us any of that. He makes albums, he tours, and when he;s not doing that he;s with his wife and kids in vermont. The idea that Ray owes us anything, that he owes us an album 5, that he owes us tours, that he owes us interviews, rays been very public and open about his dislike of the industry and the machine. He wants to make music. anything else he isnt interested in. and the guys made 4 beautiful records. I dont think he owes us a damn thing

And thats sort of the outrageous thing about this. If you were to say to any artist, let alone ray or damien, "you owe us", they'd probably curse you out, or hit you, and frankly with good reason. Ray didnt become a musician to please us, or you, or the label. neither did damien. why would they suddenly change that?

insane?! lmfao

dude I have been following ray since acre of land so I think I am at least capable of posting my opinion.............artists get pushed and pulled and to think otherwise lends to mario's criticism of your fantasy world

true ray really only cares about his family - and he truly does want to support his wife and kids - that said it is VERY obvious to me that gossip is BY FAR the most commercial release he has ever allowed..............he was pushed into going for fame in attempt to bolster his career - period - if he was true to his instincts he wouldn't even be touring

you need to chill and open the slightest crack in that closed mind of yours if you ask me.........

[radiohead33]

Originally Posted by davidcotyalex

insane?! lmfao

dude I have been following ray since acre of land so I think I am at least capable of posting my opinion.............artists get pushed and pulled and to think otherwise lends to mario's criticism of your fantasy world

true ray really only cares about his family - and he truly does want to support his wife and kids - that said it is VERY obvious to me that gossip is BY FAR the most commercial release he has ever allowed..............he was pushed into going for fame in attempt to bolster his career - period - if he was true to his instincts he wouldn't even be touring

you need to chill and open the slightest crack in that closed mind of yours if you ask me.........

ray has a hard time talking to the public at all. his interview on KCRW in 2009 or so was among the most uncomfortable ive ever seen. The host asked him a variety of questions, ray seemingly was uncomfortable with just about every question. I dont think releasing music thats inspired by Van Morrison and Stephen Stills, and Otis Redding is fashionable, nor is it the type of music one would make if they wanted to be rich and famous. Gossip though stylistically different than the first 2, still is reminiscent of those early influences.

I have a hard to believing that a record label could convince ray to do anything at all. They obviously havent forced or pushed the issue of being more public. He's been like that his whole career. if an artist has a hard time even speaking to an audience and conducting interviews, and they continue this for years, i find it hard to believe a label would be able to push that artist around and convince them to do something they didnt want to do. Rays lyrical content is largely the same on all 4 records. rural life, family and love. Gossip was no different.

also i think you confuse the issue. an album or work thats commercial isnt the same thing as creating it to become rich and famous and become the next big thing. Thats something many people are confused about, not just with ray, but in general. An artist who releases a commercial album didnt necessarily get forced to by their label, and they may not be making such a record to become wealthy and famous and a pop star.

you also fail to recognize the change in style from Gossip to God Willing. That was a big change as well. He's gotten progressively more country. Thats the change i see. the first two were largely acoustic affairs. Gossip started the progression and God Willing continued it. Its now a band, many members in the band, the sound is more country, more band based. I dont see Gossip as some pivital commercial album. Its just one stop on the continuing artistic exploration of sound that Ray has undertaken.

i sort of agree with you, in that he does seem to completely dislike everything about the music buisness. That said, touring and merch sales is the only way artists make money now. So, i dont think he was pushed into going for fame, but i do think, he's aware, just as any artist in music in 2012 is aware, that record sales dont pay the bills anymore, and if they want to make any money at all, they have to tour. thats true for u2, and coldplay and its true for the band on some indie label that is releasing their debut album. if he wants to make a living in music, i dont think he has any choice but to tour.

[davidcotyalex]

dude you really need to relax and get off your high horse................it has been WAY too long a day to engage with your tude.............it must be nice to be so all knowing lmFao