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Old 05-24-2004, 09:36 PM   #1
Peter
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i for one am happy that damo is playing another concert - just a little upset that it has to be political... is it really true that the concert is party of "nationwide protests against George Bush's visit to Ireland?"
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Old 05-24-2004, 09:38 PM   #2
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i just agree. but i've already been chastised for disliking politics.
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Old 05-24-2004, 09:40 PM   #3
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i wont get in to this till i find out more!!!![img]smileys/smiley18.gif[/img]
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Old 05-24-2004, 09:45 PM   #4
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i am prepared to do battle... why politicize music even indirectly that was never meant to be political?
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Old 05-24-2004, 09:47 PM   #5
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whats the point in "battling" over this i think there was a thread similar to this before
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Old 05-24-2004, 09:52 PM   #6
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You can check out the thread in the gigs forum.


Music "not meant to be" political??? I don't think music was meant to be a-political. Music is meant to be whatever the musician intends, and even then it doesn't matter, because the listener will interpret it to mean something else.


Music can draw people to very important causes and political issues, and I am grateful for that - it gets people registered to vote, conscious about things they never would have known or cared about, and hopefully invigorated to make positive change.
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Old 05-24-2004, 10:00 PM   #7
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well said![img]smileys/smiley17.gif[/img]
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Old 05-24-2004, 10:11 PM   #8
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i love when music gets political... imagine bob dylan or u2 without them singing about what's going on in the world!! if you don't like music that reflects what's happening in the world then go listen to britney.

damien obviously feels very strongly about bush's visit to ireland, as i do, and who are you or anyone to tell him he's wrong to do it?? i was delighted to hear he's playing at this gig!

go check out the other threads, if you wanna get into this.
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Old 05-24-2004, 10:12 PM   #9
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yeah, i was going to say something very similar to what ValERIE just said. i never understood why ppl think politics doesn't belong in the arts.


(edited because i made a terrible mistake - forgive me now, gltrgrrl?[img]smileys/smiley19.gif[/img])Edited by: supercille
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Old 05-24-2004, 10:16 PM   #10
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I would expect nothing less of Damien. [img]smileys/smiley32.gif[/img]


He doesn't strike me as someone who's asleep at the wheel and obsessed only with his guitar strings and pedals. Judging from hisbiography his horizon is a bit wider than that and we should all be better off for it to be fans of someone who has so much to offer on different levels.
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Old 05-24-2004, 10:31 PM   #11
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oh here we go again............


just remember wat i said b4 in the other thread......dont get pissed wen sum1 sez sth u dont like....
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Old 05-25-2004, 07:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
i am prepared to do battle... why politicize music even indirectly that was never meant to be political?

Um, Peter... who are you to say what someone else's music was "meant" or "never meant" to be?? Unless you wrote it yourself you have no idea what the original intended meaning was.


And if your comment was to say that all music was never meant to be political, well gross generalizations will always get you into trouble because they're ridiculous. Music has been a means of stating opinions and sending out a rallying cry ever since music was born. It's not always political... but it often is. And it can be a very powerful form of raising political awareness. Thank heavens.


And yes that is exactly what that show is for, protesting Bush's visit to Ireland. And why shouldn't youthe Irishprotest? I'm American and an economist and George Bush's administration has done so many unbelievably horrid, expensive (in blood and money) and indefensible things to our country, theMiddle East,and the world... I think I'll protest him when he returns to the US - maybe they'll keep him in a holding pattern over DC indefinitely? I can dream anyway.....


[And just in case anyone is going to say Bush is justified in this war because of Sept. 11, I know people who died in the WTC and while it was all horrific, this war on Iraq has nothing to do with it and I'm 100% against it. If Bush really wanted to pursue Sept. 11 terrorists he would have started in Saudi Arabia where most of the hijackers were from.]Edited by: Beat Surrender
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Old 05-25-2004, 10:06 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Pink

oh here we go again............


just remember wat i said b4 in the other thread......dont get pissed wen sum1 sez sth u dont like....
[img]smileys/smiley3.gif[/img] Who are YOU to tell me who to get pissed at!?!? [img]smileys/smiley7.gif[/img] I'll scream at ANYone I want to scream at!! And for NO GOOD REASON!!! [img]smileys/smiley7.gif[/img]

[img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img] [img]smileys/smiley36.gif[/img] [img]smileys/smiley4.gif[/img]
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Old 05-25-2004, 10:12 AM   #14
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On the whole 'war on terror' thing... the ONLY way to defeat terrorism is through love, compassion and generosity.

Every war results in innocent deaths, every innocent death fuels terrorism.

Instead of attacking an area where terrorists live amongst the community... be generous. Give aid, jobs, friendship to that community. If the community like you, they won't harbour the terrorists... and without a community in which to hide, the terrorists cannot survive.

[img]smileys/smiley31.gif[/img]
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Old 05-25-2004, 10:13 AM   #15
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[img]smileys/smiley32.gif[/img][img]smileys/smiley32.gif[/img][img]smileys/smiley32.gif[/img][img]smileys/smiley31.gif[/img]
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Old 05-25-2004, 10:18 AM   #16
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LET'S MAKE LOVE!!!!











(not war)
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Old 05-25-2004, 01:30 PM   #17
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word cille [img]smileys/smiley31.gif[/img](even if you did call me Val [img]smileys/smiley11.gif[/img])
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Old 05-25-2004, 01:39 PM   #18
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arrgh... sorry! i forgot that you don't like that nickname...can you forgive me?
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Old 05-25-2004, 02:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamosFavEyes
i've already been chastised for disliking politics.

aaaww, i feel really bad now[img]smileys/smiley6.gif[/img]
seriously, i have been thinking somewhat about it, and i'm really sorry if i was too harsh on you. i just saw red when i read the sentence 'i hate politics' and i think i may have misunderstood what you really meant. 'politics' in the meaning of the cynical powerplay that our world is really ruled by - i definately hate that too! I just see red like that sometimes, cause i've met the attitude of 'i don't care about politics and society' too many times and it frustrates me when ppl don't show more interest in the world we live in. i have a feeling that this isn't you position, and i really apologize for automatically assuming that it was!
(and i don't need you to 'forgive me' or anything, just felt i had to let you know)Edited by: supercille
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Old 05-25-2004, 02:07 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supercille
arrgh... sorry! i forgot that you don't like that nickname...can you forgive me?

sure thing [img]smileys/smiley31.gif[/img]
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Old 05-25-2004, 02:11 PM   #21
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"I'm American and an economist and George Bush's administration has done so many unbelievably horrid, expensive (in blood and money) and indefensible things to our country, the*Middle East,*and the world..."

i was not trying to insinuate that music can’t be political – just that damo’s music that i have heard is not political and i for one hope that it doesn’t become political… the music should speak for itself and not for or against the war on terror… i adamantly disagree with your above statement that bush’s war on terror is indefensible – and i am pretty certain my friends and professor who died on 9/11 would too – but does that mean that we can like the same music… music that talks about things more human than politics…
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Old 05-25-2004, 02:22 PM   #22
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Damo's music is certainly not political in general.
He usually speaks about personal relationships, so
you probably have nothing to worry about on that
score, Peter.
However, I disagree with your belief that 'War on
Terror' can be defended. Terrorists, by their very
nature, attack what they believe to be a threat to their
country/way of life. By declaring war on them you
only create more followers of their violent ways. If
anything, you help their cause. Terrorism is just not
about one cohert unit - thye are unlike an army in that
way, and terrorists do not stand for the beliefs of
everyone in their country so by attacking a country at
large because of a terrorist threat you only create
more converts to their particularr cause. Violence
breeds violence.
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Old 05-25-2004, 02:49 PM   #23
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Yeah I think one problem is that America has not had to deal with 'terrorism' of this kind before. The Bush administration seems to be treating it like conventional conflicts...

I am surprised Tony Blair (who knows a bit about terrorism from the Northern Ireland situ) hasn't offered more perspective to 'W' (or Don or whoever is the real string-puller).

We ALL want to see terrorism defeated, but those of us who have met it before (and who are making a good go at defeating it here) feel VERY strongly that a different approach is needed to achieve our common goal.

*********

Okay, sorry, back on topic. I'm sure most of Damien's music will remain unpolitical... or at least focussed on the politics of the sexes [img]smileys/smiley4.gif[/img]
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Old 05-25-2004, 02:53 PM   #24
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Well said, Wheels. [img]smileys/smiley32.gif[/img]
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Old 05-25-2004, 03:20 PM   #25
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you rock, you roll, wheels![img]smileys/smiley4.gif[/img]
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Old 05-25-2004, 03:51 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
i was not trying to insinuate that music can’t be political – just that damo’s music that i have heard is not political and i for one hope that it doesn’t become political… the music should speak for itself and not for or against the war on terror… i adamantly disagree with your above statement that bush’s war on terror is indefensible – and i am pretty certain my friends and professor who died on 9/11 would too – but does that mean that we can like the same music… music that talks about things more human than politics…

Peter, I think that you missed something - Beat Surrender said that Sept 11th did not justify the War in Iraq, not the "War on Terror." But I really am uninterested in the debate about whether the war is justified...I'm more interested in the debate about music and politics...


For some reason I think that if Damien announced that he was performing for Mr. Bush or at a Support Our Troops rally or something of that nature, you wouldn't be sad about it at all. Regardless of whether you thinkthat Damien's music itself is not "political," he has every right to use what he has, including his music, to support things he believes in.
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Old 05-25-2004, 03:58 PM   #27
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I can't believe Ive missed this thread til now. I am SO excited that damien is making his political allegiance known. Did you get annoyed when tomo wore his f**k bush t-shirt? Damien is not "politicising" his music, he is lending his talent to a cause he supports. Just because Chris Martin and Coldplay don't sing about third world debt doesn't mean they can't feel passionately about it. And if they can use their success to make a difference in a cause they believe in, why not? Damien obviously feels strongly about this and is representing the majority of Irish citizens in taking a stand. And a peaceful, happy stand at that.
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Old 05-25-2004, 06:10 PM   #28
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i think damien also protested last year when 100,000 people (including lots of musicians, such as larry mullen jnr) took to the streets of dublin to protest the start of the war on iraq, and all the lies that were being used as justification - including the one that you seem to believe in peter, that iraq was involved in september 11th. i also don't think it's about politics, i think it's about social justice and standing up for people who don't have a voice. and i couldn't be more proud of damien for doing so.
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Old 05-26-2004, 04:14 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
i was not trying to insinuate that music can’t be political – just that damo’s music that i have heard is not political and i for one hope that it doesn’t become political… the music should speak for itself and not for or against the war on terror… i adamantly disagree with your above statement that bush’s war on terror is indefensible – and i am pretty certain my friends and professor who died on 9/11 would too – but does that mean that we can like the same music… music that talks about things more human than politics…

I could easily get into a debate with you about the supposed "war on terror" (that by the way has already been proven to have INCREASED the ranks of Al Queada as opposed to decimating them - which was predicted before we even went into Iraq). You and I both lost people we love in WTC so I'm sure you'd be suprised at how absolutely differently I see Bush's fake war (that has made Cheney and their henchmen unacceptably rich and our country depleted of young lives and billions and billions of dollars, and INCREASED the liklihood of a terrorist attack on the US).


BUT... this began with what is still an incredibly presumptuous opinion of yours about Damien's music. First off, you talked about the intent of his music - I say again, unless you are Damien himself you have no idea the INTENT of the music. You only know YOUR OPINION, just as I only know mine of the meaning of his music. Intent is not for you to say unless you wrote it.


And as for whether Damien's music is political or not, it may not be political in the "world affairs" realm of politics, but it is certainly political in the realm of "personal politics". Next time anyone on this board runs into Damien, it would be very interesting to hear his answer to the question "Would you describe your music as political?"


But at the end of the day Peter, another huge point that you seem not be aware of... musicians are people. People have opinions. Some people feel it is their civic duty to speak their opinions and act on them. Just as you are free to state your opinions about Bush's fake war on terror really being an effort to stop terrorism (as opposed to an effort to make his buddies rich, increase patriotism, and control oil and other political holdings in the Middle East, which is what ALL the evidence shows it was for), Damien is free to state his opinion that Ireland should not welcome Bush with open arms.


And... you're free to stop liking Damien or his music if you disagree with his viewpoint. But thank heavens Damien feels the need to speak his views. I hope the event has an awesome turnout.
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Old 05-26-2004, 08:12 PM   #30
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very well said, beat surrender.
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