angry ar Damien

[Cerque]

Am i the only one angry at Damien for nothing being brought to the table? not even a word?

[orangejasmine]

^ Well, I'm completely new to the Damoverse ( at Verenita! ), so maybe I shouldn't be posting (yet). But maybe this is a good opportunity then to ask - what has the fan base grown accustomed to? I mean, are you guys used to getting a lot of news off his official sites and other fansites dedicated to him? Does he usually communicate with the fans a lot?

Since I haven't had that much time to browse and read up here on the Igloo, I don't know; are you guys awaiting news on an upcoming album? A project? A collaboration?

[cille]

No i am not angry.

^We are used to months, years of silence, that's just how it is

[borneoman]

not angry at all...

I'd say I find the lack of news a bit frustrating, but it's like that for all artists around. When they go and record the next album all artists disappear for a while and you know nothing about them, which is good in a way, no need for a 24-hour a day twitter...

but we know he's up there working on several (too many) things... like Take That say, just have a little Patience

[orangejasmine]

Originally Posted by cille

^We are used to months, years of silence, that's just how it is

Aha. I see. Thanks for that note, hey!

Originally Posted by borneoman

I'd say I find the lack of news a bit frustrating, but it's like that for all artists around. When they go and record the next album all artists disappear for a while and you know nothing about them, which is good in a way, no need for a 24-hour a day twitter...

That is true about the recording phase. I suppose while writing and recording an original body of work, the artist may need to be completely immersed in their work. That's maybe a separate issue to the one of information on the new material reaching the fanbase or even having the material leak before its release date.

Your twitter comment. Tee-hee!!!!

but we know he's up there working on several (too many) things... like Take That say, just have a little Patience

Oh o.k.

[mariaoran]

Originally Posted by Cerque

Am i the only one angry at Damien for nothing being brought to the table? not even a word?

being angry at Damo seems kind of futile, don't you think?

[LaurenM]

Originally Posted by mariaoran

being angry at Damo seems kind of futile, don't you think?

Not at all. On the contrary, it could ultimately prove fruitful. If we all get super pissed and send him hate letters, possibly try to ruin his every day life, (you know, dropping banana peels so he slips, throwing buckets of cold water in his face on cold, Irish days) he will get so angry he'll get inspired, and finally write a new album.... whose with me?

[Emelie]

^ good idea in theory... but how great would songs about hating us and banana peels really be? :P

[borneoman]

^^Funny cos yesterday I was reading an interview with this singer Nerina Pallot and she was saying how she got married after her 2nd album and she was so happy that she thought she might never put a 3rd album cos she didn't feel like writing tortured songs and only felt like writing about her dog or going to birthday parties...

[orangejasmine]

Originally Posted by borneoman

^^Funny cos yesterday I was reading an interview with this singer Nerina Pallot and she was saying how she got married after her 2nd album and she was so happy that she thought she might never put a 3rd album cos she didn't feel like writing tortured songs and only felt like writing about her dog or going to birthday parties...

O.k., but this is something that I, personally, don't understand. Why must an album only consist of angry songs for it to be worth your while to publish?

I don't understand that! I mean, what does that say about the artist and their followers???? It's alarming that happiness, fulfillment, being giddy, even being silly or not taking oneself so seriously all the time is considered as producing inferior art!

[borneoman]

I don't know why but it's like that for many forms of art. Take a look at painters for instance. Almost all painters I can think of had a kinda tortured life: Frida Kahlo, Picasso, Modigliani, Van Gogh, Dali, Pollock...

[orangejasmine]

Originally Posted by borneoman

I don't know why but it's like that for many forms of art. Take a look at painters for instance. Almost all painters I can think of had a kinda tortured life: Frida Kahlo, Picasso, Modigliani, Van Gogh, Dali, Pollock...

Yes yes. Good point. And many of those you mentioned are some favourites of mine.

But, then again, there are art forms ( ) where the idea of only practicing your craft when you are in some way emotionally perturbed - tee-hee!!!! what a euphemism there, hey? - is just so absurd!

Well, for example, the pioneering choreographers of the 20th century - I don't know if their masterpieces were inspired by turmoil in their private lives!

[orangejasmine]

^^ But to bring the conversation back to the music and entertainment industry - it's just that there are these so-called niche artists that only do "angry", "dark" and "emotionally deep".

Pallot has stated in that interview you mentioned that she certainly is not in this state of being all the time. Sure, emotional turmoil might be a driving force for her to create, but I still find it a bit puzzling that with some musicians, there is the strong implication that they cannot or are not particularly interested to practice their craft in any other emotional state.

This raises an eyebrow for me. It makes me wonder to which extent they can call themselves musicians and performers.

[Rai]

^^Great painters are generally insane, and that makes living a happy, uneventful life a wee bit problematic.

Also, I wouldn't say that Picasso had a tragic life. He lived in turbulent times, but generally he lived well (with his army of mistresses).

[orangejasmine]

Originally Posted by Rai

^^Great painters are generally insane, and that makes living a happy, uneventful life a wee bit problematic.

Also, I wouldn't say that Picasso had a tragic life. He lived in turbulent times, but generally he lived well (with his army of mistresses).

An uneventful life is not necessarily a happy existence either though, hey! But I suppose you meant happy and, at the same time, uneventful. Well, even so, that's a bit presumptuous, in my opinion. If someone is happy, there must be something or someone in their lives that facilitates that feeling. Surely that is worthy of artistic expression???

Now. Content. Being content is another story all together.

However. Tee-hee! Marti, we seemed to have left "of questionable sanity" out of the equation. Good point there, Rai.

[Rai]

^Ok, then happy and eventful. And I thought that I was a professional nitpicker

[orangejasmine]

Originally Posted by Rai

^Ok, then happy and eventful. And I thought that I was a professional nitpicker

I've been known to nitpick.

[Rai]

^So I noticed.

[Samart]

Being angry at him, sending him hate letters ??
I hope this is a very early/late April fool's joke.

I think (please notice the "I think") that if you're a real fan, you should have some consideration of the main caracter's personality. Mr Damien Rice never said : I want to be a star. I want to be loved by the public. I want to sell millions copies of my albums.

So, I thought, that at least here, people would just accept him like he is, because we are supposed to know him a little bit more than those whose who have just listened to "The Blower's daughter/Cannonball" on the radio a couple of time, or listened to his music through Grey's anatomy. I mean by that, we have read/listened to some/many? of his interviews and have our idea of his personality right ?

Ever since I have been following his career, if I could use that word, it seems that he was true to himself. It seems that he really do what he want and don't want responsibilities. Not too much. It is his right to do that. He was the kind of guy who left his band and record companies to grow vegetables in Toscany. The fame he got throught O, following by 9, he got it because people were moved by his songs, right ?

Damien don't play the good guy. He don't play anything else than music (i'm kind of extreme here, but I think you get my thought). He never said he was a good guy. On the contrary, he always said that he as been doing bad things to the people he loved, etc... Also, for the "Lisa Hannigan layoff", if you think about Juniper, it's not weird at all. If he thought than he should not "force" Lisa and the band to play the same dozen of songs ever and ever, he should know better than us, who are not part of the process in any way. I remember something close to those words "reached the limits of artistic creativity" on his website back then.

If he is solo now, it is because he wanted/felt the need to, and I think it's ok like that. If he gives us some news through his myspace page or in any way, it will be very kind to him, but he is not something that he HAVE to do, like he owe something to us. And his website mention : "Damien is currently working on various recording projects. more news later...". So, that's already very kind of him/his related staff.

So, I was thinking than people here already accepted him like he is. I think that if you like an artist, you should consider a little bit his personality. So, I'm disapointed about this kind of reactions. But maybe it's just me, and nothing is going wrong here.

[mariaoran]

hah Lauren yeah that would be great, if only it were possible to find his real address...

But seriously, I think in his case he doesn't do music 'for the fans.' Its kind of clear that he does music for himself and that he has to be satisfied with the material he is putting out, over the need to produce record after record after record...

Orangejasmin I understand what you are saying. i've asked myself this question many times, because it is indeed odd to conceive that a musician , a writer, or a painter can only produce good work when they are miserable and sad. But maybe that's just the type of art most of us relate to the most?

But yeah artists can produce good work when they are 'happy' (however you define that?). I mean there are good happy songs out there, people like just the same, and they are just as successful as the angry songs too.

But sad songs that talk of miserable and depressing times is what Damien does, he has said many times that he writes best when he is depressed and not having a good time, and that's what we've come to expect. We also related to him in the beginning because of those sad and angry songs, because he was saying things that we were feeling or wanted to say to someone, etc. I for one would be completely weirded-out by Damien coming out with a 'happy songs' record. Doesn't mean it would be a bad record, but indeed weird. Also we've been waiting for a while to hear new stuff from him (though not nearly as long as last time!) so if we try to rationalize the lack of new material all I can personally think of is that Damo is living his life and not wasting time being angry or sad at some girl. But its all about this perception he crated with his music and what he has said, that's all. That in my opinion is the case of Damien. And to be fair we have to agree that it changes from artist to artist and specially from art form to art form.
I think the angry song/happy song thing says much more about us than the artists themselves. After all they are entitled to produce any type of art that they please, we are the ones that chose to like the angry songs over the others. Maybe we are just all miserable feckers

Just listen to some other music and wait. Get detached from his songs and then maybe you'll miss them enough to come back and discover them again. I for one have discovered so many great artists since I stopped listening to Damien. I guess for me its been a fruitful detachment

Originally Posted by Samart

So, I was thinking than people here already accepted him like he is. I think that if you like an artist, you should consider a little bit his personality. So, I'm disapointed about this kind of reactions. But maybe it's just me, and nothing is going wrong here.

That is a foolish assumption I think, but I guess its harder to pick up on the nuances of tone and intention through the internet. Its just friendly discourse really, not a sign of things to come.... .yet :P

[orangejasmine]

^^ Yeah, I think there's been some misinterpretation at what has been said in this thread. The overwhelming majority of people actually said that they are not angry at Mr. Rice, then a more generalised conversation developed about various art forms.

Originally Posted by mariaoran

Orangejasmin I understand what you are saying. i've asked myself this question many times, because it is indeed odd to conceive that a musician , a writer, or a painter can only produce good work when they are miserable and sad. But maybe that's just the type of art most of us relate to the most?

Well, to add to your musings - and this is not really so much Damien-specific now - I think, culturally, our society doesn't really offer us much of an outlet for managing anger, depression, sadness, resentment, etc. It's as if they are ailments that need to be treated. Hence, seen as a deviation from some norm! Meanwhile, we're all very much capable of experiencing those emotions! Not only that, I also feel that we partition ourselves into categories - the emotionally/intellectually deep types, the weird types; the sappy and, hence, superficial sugar-coated types that spew rainbows and daffodils from their arse. Meanwhile, we all do congratulate ourselves and each other when we experience the joy of success, happiness, find new love, etc. So...

It's a tricky topic to discuss, hey?

But sad songs that talk of miserable and depressing times is what Damien does, he has said many times that he writes best when he is depressed and not having a good time, and that's what we've come to expect.

Yes, I've heard this recently too. If the artist outright says so, then I guess one can deal with that notion somehow. On the other hand, expectations built up by the artist's followers is another issue though.

We also related to him in the beginning because of those sad and angry songs, because he was saying things that we were feeling or wanted to say to someone, etc.

Oh yes. This, I completely understand. I mean, of course, one projects onto any artist's work, and see yourself and your situation in their work. At the same time, as I alluded earlier, I often wonder why our channels of self-expression are such that we need to seek out and partition art for certain emotions.

I for one would be completely weirded-out by Damien coming out with a 'happy songs' record. Doesn't mean it would be a bad record, but indeed weird.

Yeah, that's personal preference. For example, given what I've heard from him thus far, I would actually welcome that! I'd love to see how explores "lighter emotions". But that's also the other thing - I've heard audio where an audience member (jokingly) requests a "happy song" and he ends up playing Coconut Skins. This is a song with an upbeat tempo, but it remains debatable whether he is expressing happiness. The song relies on humorous scorn, yes. But the content is not necessarily driven by happiness??? Or, one doesn't necessarily interpret it that way (if you're perhaps lacking a background story to the song's inception).

Also we've been waiting for a while to hear new stuff from him (though not nearly as long as last time!) so if we try to rationalize the lack of new material all I can personally think of is that Damo is living his life and not wasting time being angry or sad at some girl.

This is where I'd place my bet too, mariaoran.

And to be fair we have to agree that it changes from artist to artist and specially from art form to art form.

Yeah hey! If anything, I think both my and Marti's examples of different art forms, the visual and then the performing arts, in the end demonstrated that! Can one explain this phenomenon in some sort of quantifiable way? Like, what are the driving mechanisms. I don't know, hey! For certain forms of the performing arts, I have my own personal theories, but cannot be sure.

I think the angry song/happy song thing says much more about us than the artists themselves.

I can get behind such an assertion. I think there is some truth to this!

After all they are entitled to produce any type of art that they please, we are the ones that chose to like the angry songs over the others. Maybe we are just all miserable feckers

Correct. I mean, the part about preferring the angry songs over the others! I have also noticed how songs that are, for example, socially aware/relevant or speak of pertinent political issues can fall through the cracks; just blocked out of the collective consciousness of the fan base! Tee-hee!!!

But indeed, mariaoran, very very interesting conversation!

[Cerque]

You're not trying to say i am not a real fan of damien are you?

[Samart]

I'm not trying to say that who is a real fan, who is a bad fan.
Maybe I just wanted to say that in "Wonderland", fans don't get mad at artists that don't release music for years. I wasn't focus on anybody, just general speak.

[borneoman]

I've also wondered a lot about the so-called tortured artists. Take Frida Kahlo, do you think she would have made the same paintings if she wasn't in such a state of physical pain? Her painting are the reflection of what she was going thru, her life transcended into the paintings...

The thing I like the most about Damien's songs is that I can relate to them. Don't mind if the songs are sad or happy, I appreciate the honesty, how real they are...in the sense that anyone has gone thru similar feelings of love, sadness, depression, frustration,...

[bearbait]

I wouldn't be angry with any artist for taking some time off, or if they end up deciding to go a different path altogether.

[davidcotyalex]

Originally Posted by borneoman

I've also wondered a lot about the so-called tortured artists. Take Frida Kahlo, do you think she would have made the same paintings if she wasn't in such a state of physical pain? Her painting are the reflection of what she was going thru, her life transcended into the paintings...

The thing I like the most about Damien's songs is that I can relate to them. Don't mind if the songs are sad or happy, I appreciate the honesty, how real they are...in the sense that anyone has gone thru similar feelings of love, sadness, depression, frustration,...

sorry for the rant but dude you really need to check this david ford guy out - that is excatly what he brings as well!!

as far as our friend damien - it isn't like we didn't all expect some time and then yes lives most defnitely have a tendency to get in the way........I would recommend not losing too much sleep over it

[orangejasmine]

Originally Posted by borneoman

I've also wondered a lot about the so-called tortured artists. Take Frida Kahlo, do you think she would have made the same paintings if she wasn't in such a state of physical pain? Her painting are the reflection of what she was going thru, her life transcended into the paintings...

Well, the thing about this trend of thought is that if Kahlo did not suffer those personal tragedies, she may have gone either way. She may have painted something else that did make an impact on her whether that is, say, the random examples of the bliss of a new relationship or the horror of having witnessed a massacre during a civil war. Or, she may have painted nothing at all.

I mean, it depends on the artist, yeah. There are many painters that also delivered work that were commissioned by wealthy patrons that would instruct them what to paint! Think of, say, a church commissioning a religious depiction. In a lot of cases, those pieces that were commissioned become interesting case studies for art students and art historians. But they are not necessarily revered as the artists' greatest work. Other times, yes! The artistic output got revered as a masterpiece.

But how interesting to ponder this question, hey!

The thing I like the most about Damien's songs is that I can relate to them. Don't mind if the songs are sad or happy, I appreciate the honesty, how real they are...in the sense that anyone has gone thru similar feelings of love, sadness, depression, frustration,...

Aha! Now, you see, I like this sentiment. I have to be honest and say that this is something that would hold my attention. That, and if an artist could expand and broaden the scope of topics and subject matters that they address in their work.

[orangejasmine]

I apologise for spamming this thread, guys. I'm new here; I don't anyone to think that I'm spamming threads!!!!

Marti, I was thinking about composers earlier. I think it's because I was still thinking about the difference between art that has been commissioned and art which stems from events that transpire in the artist's personal life, as in your Frida Kahlo example.

There are also many composers that have delivered operatic and balletic scores that were commissioned by a theatre or opera house. And, of course, they were writing a score which was to serve as the musical backbone for a pre-existing narrative that was to play itself out on stage. A lot of the old, classic operas and ballets draw their narratives and symbols from ancient mythologies, folklore and fairytale.

So, the question that forms in my mind is this - those composers that delivered operatic and/or balletic scores that are now hailed as masterpieces, did they excavate their own personal struggles and inject that into the narrative???? But then again, myth, lore and fairytale depict and examine the human condition, so I suppose the composer could still relate to and project onto whatever is suppose to play itself out on stage and deliver an emotionally-charged score. I guess I'm trying to say that artists can also deliver of great calibre if they look outside themselves for a source of inspiration.

Anyway, hey! That was just another thought that came to mind.

As a side note - I think 'longevity' and 'sustainability' are very important ideas to consider when thinking about an artist in the music industry and what makes their fans keep coming back for more.

[borneoman]

for me, the music has to come from the guts and be honest. That's what makes it honest are real for me.

If Cathy Dennis goes and writes Can't get you out of my Head and then Kylie goes and sings it, that doesn't mean a thing. It's not the same emotion as when Damien sings I Can't Take My Mind Off Of You!

[orangejasmine]

Originally Posted by borneoman

If Cathy Dennis goes and writes Can't get you out of my Head and then Kylie goes and sings it, that doesn't mean a thing. It's not the same emotion as when Damien sings I Can't Take My Mind Off Of You!

Yeah, but but but.

The problem with the comparison you're making is this - on the one hand, there is the problem of the calibre of songwriting we're talking about here. *cough* Then, on the other hand, you also have to take into consideration that in the case of Damien Rice, the writer/composer of the song and the performer happen to be the same person.

Do you really think that to interpret someone else's songwriting is less genuine in all cases???? That's harsh, Marti!