Song interpretation

[filledanse]

hey,

have any of you guys ever listened to one of damiens songs and really just wondered what it was actually about, what he was thinkin of when he wrote it? or do you make your own interpretations of his songs, interpretations that change all the time?

or alternatively do you kno the story behind some of his songs?

id be really interested in hearin that...

[PenguinBoy]

it's different for every song tbh. most of the songs are pretty self explanitary, but i always wondered about amie's space ship... i think it's just there cause it's funny. eskimo friends, i think there must be a reason for us being eskimo friends, rather than just friends. but i don't know. but songs just say what they are.

[Spamlet]

Originally Posted by PenguinBoy

it's different for every song tbh. most of the songs are pretty self explanitary, but i always wondered about amie's space ship... i think it's just there cause it's funny. eskimo friends, i think there must be a reason for us being eskimo friends, rather than just friends. but i don't know. but songs just say what they are.

If you can't see what symbolism there is in putting a spaceship into a song like that then you must not be listening to the rest of the lyrics very hard. It's definitely not just there to be funny. You don't know why we're called "Eskimo friends"? Damn boy, you must smoke a whole lot of dope...

[SisterMidnight]

i'd like to hear your interpretation of the spaceship spam man.. that one gets some really interesting spins put on it depending on the person.. and the debate rages on over what eskimo might mean so...

i see the songs as having many layers and metaphors and symbolism (of course i look at most things in life that way) but some people take them at face value... which is their prerogative. its all individual and subjective really, how you interpret something, there is no right or wrong

[SisterMidnight]

okay my interpretation of eskimo (for one) i think it's about loneliness.. and feeling overwhelmed with life and cast off by others but you have this one good, true friend who loves you for who you are and who you can rely on to be there for you. and i think it's a friend that somehow exists beyond the ordinary everyday realm...

kosketa minua - touch me
älä käsilläsi - not with your hands
vaan niin että tunnen sinut - but the way I can feel you

kosketa minua - touch me
älä käsilläsi - not with your hands
mutta sielussasi - but within your soul

some people say its about drugs, others masturbation, damien at one point said is was about a friend of his that looked kind of like an eskimo (blam thats it - but i bet he gave that answer because he was sick of answering the question)

he also said when he was still with juniper he was frustrated because he was trying to write "radio friendly" songs that the record company wanted him to and he had lost heart because of it. he got frustrated and threw his friend's guitar across the room and then picked it up and strummed it to see if it was okay and out came the first chord of eskimo... it was a turning point for him because after that he decided to leave juniper and make music for himself and not others... and the rest is history

...i still like to think its about an imaginary friend in a way hence my take on the otherworldy nature of the friendship, like a soul friend of sorts...

[PenguinBoy]

Originally Posted by Spamlet

If you can't see what symbolism there is in putting a spaceship into a song like that then you must not be listening to the rest of the lyrics very hard. It's definitely not just there to be funny. You don't know why we're called "Eskimo friends"? Damn boy, you must smoke a whole lot of dope...

that was well patronising, i'm sure if i thought about the space ship, i could try to explain it, but it doesn't mean it's what damo meant,

i guess it would be something unusual and it would be something strange, if a spaceship were infact to fly past a window. and it's something you can't back up. "i saw a space ship" - "yeah, sure u did", just how he can't fully explain how he feels... i still reckon it's arguable

i look to my eskimo friend when i'm down
i look to my lonely friend when i'm down

not sure... it's arguable...

damo is alloud to put in humerous stuff.

[PenguinBoy]

eskimo friend does indeed sound a bit like the tambourine man. I would say that Eskimo Friend would be an embodyment of all the good things, that offer confort to the pain of existance. and possibly an ode a specific person who has enbodied such things personally for damien.

"If you can't see what symbolism there is in putting a spaceship into a song like that then you must not be listening to the rest of the lyrics very hard"

[unspokenanswer]

Everytime I listen, I pick up something new. It's like the little picture of the dude with the lightbulb going on over his head. I think there is quite a bit more to the whole "spaceship" and the reason for eskimo. I mean, hell, they could just be there but I doubt it. A little bit random, in my personal opinion to just throw 'em in there. I mean, take the lyric at face value, or read in to it and suck out its insides; whatever you do, just enjoy the music!

[walker]

A long time ago I read a thread that said "eskimo friend" in the song Eskimo is really like cocaine or something. I don't think that is true. I think Damien really does have a literal eskimo friend

[steveboswell]

Originally Posted by PenguinBoy

Don't worry about it, PenguinBoy, the whole joy of music is that you can interpret it however you like. Just like reviewing a good book or poem, there is no right or wrong answer. I can't decide what the space ship means yet, and I've listened to the song hundreds of times.

Bozz

[Gatsby]

Originally Posted by steveboswell

Don't worry about it, PenguinBoy, the whole joy of music is that you can interpret it however you like. Just like reviewing a good book or poem, there is no right or wrong answer. I can't decide what the space ship means yet, and I've listened to the song hundreds of times.

Bozz

exactly!!! let people interpret it however they want and dont give out for their interpretations... i personally think eskimo is about pavlova loving frogs who ride tiny bicycles... thats my interpretation and you cant have it

[SisterMidnight]

^ rofl!!

Originally Posted by PenguinBoy

eskimo friend does indeed sound a bit like the tambourine man. I would say that Eskimo Friend would be an embodyment of all the good things, that offer confort to the pain of existance. and possibly an ode a specific person who has enbodied such things personally for damien.

i like this interpretation

i never got the tambourine man connection before but now that you mention it... hmm... tho they say that one is definitely about drugs so hmm...

[Gatsby]

The drugs thing definately works for me... i remember discussing that a good long while ago and people laughed at the idea

i think all music has sub-plots that people read in what they want

puts a good spin on the song in my opinion

[SisterMidnight]

exactly! when a song is personal to the songwriter but still has a universal appeal and can conjure up individual meanings to others thats when you know it's a brilliantly written song...

anyway not everybody laughed a lot of people agree with you on that one... emily for one, she says to tell you that you're right and i'm wrong

[Spamlet]

Sorry I haven't checked back in a few days, gang! Not as sorry as you're going to be that the long winded, overly analytical one has responded, though.

So ok, sure, of course there are all manner of infinite subtle interpretations for any song or any piece of art for that matter. I'd never argue that point and wasn't. My entire profession's reason for being is dependent upon that fact.

What I was saying in regards to "Amie" was that the spaceship isn't just put in there to be funny or arbitrary (the song was originally called "Spaceship" after all). Naturally, there are numerous layers of meaning and see, ah!, that's precisely my point: even a cursory glance at the surrounding lyrics in the song should reveal that even if the idea strikes you as humorous it's not just there to be funny because it's so clearly connected thematically.

Context is essential to any valid literary interpretation. After all, if there's nothing in the text to support the interpretation someone gives, then their argument has no real foundation. Likewise, if their interpretation blatently contradicts the text then what they are really doing is altering what is there simply to fit their own ideas which we can often state with confidence have nothing to do with what the author intended.

For example, it's pretty fair to say "Cheers Darlin'" is a song about a man who is in love with a woman who's getting married to someone else. I only know that because the author chooses to give me all of that information. I can snarkily say a la Revelate: "I interpret it to be a song about a giraffe giving birth to a zebra." but looking at the lyrics there's no reason for anyone to seriously believe that was what the author intended, is there?

That said, some authors are purposefully vague. Mr. Rice himself sometimes takes that route. But there's still something that's being communicated with every word. There's still a reason any skilled author chooses that word. This is why I took umbrage with you, penguin! You can call it condescending if you like but the teacher in me (couldn't tell, could ya?) is saying you're handing in a report that leads me to conclude you didn't even bother to read the book by someone you claim is one of your favorite writers.

Well he's one of mine too and the closer (no pun intended) you look at the depth of meaning in his words the more your awe and appreciation of his stunning wisdom will grow. Sure you can take him at face value but since he goes so far beyond that (and so few popular artists can to the extent with which he does) it'd be a real shame. I mean you could take Bergman at face value too like he was just another Micheal Bay but you'd be missing the entire point of what made him a genius and a truly great artist.

You can usually get at least a pretty good idea of what a song is about even when certain lines are obtuse. So one guy can say "Eskimo" is about drugs, another dude can say it's about masturbation and a gal can say it's about an actual Eskimo who was a friend of the author. All of those are perfectly valid because all of them fit reasonably with the lyrics' notion (which all of those interpreters instinctively connected to in their own personal manner) that the "Eskimo friend" somehow cheers up the narrator when he's down and needs a lift. So basically your subsequent posts were in general right on the money: the theme here has to do with finding comfort. It's natural for the listener to substitute if they have one particularly frequent form of it they always resort to. The more someone else shares your preference the more likely they are to agree with you.

Now then, since I believe you've now got a whiff of the scent I was leading you towards for "Amie" how about we follow it further? Let's pretend that you're a woman and a male friend of yours is confessing this to you for the first time:


Nothing unusual, nothing strange
Close to nothing at all.
The same old scenario, the same old rain
And there's no explosions here.
Then something unusual, something strange
Comes from nothing at all.
I saw a spaceship fly by your window.
Did you see it disappear?

Then he has a special request for you:

Amie, come sit on my wall
And read me the story of O.
And tell it like you still believe
That the end of the century
Brings a change for you and me.

Let's say for the sake of argument that you politely refuse. What follows?

Nothing unusual, nothing's changed.
Just a little older that's all.
You know when you've found it,
There's something I've learned
'Cause you feel it when they take it away.

Something unusual, something strange
Comes from nothing at all.
But I'm not a miracle
And you're not a saint.
Just another soldier
On the road to nowhere.

Can he live with believing that it didn't exist? Wouldn't it be better if it did?

Amie come sit on my wall
And read me the story of O.
And tell it like you still believe
That the end of the century
Brings a change for you and me.

We're given clues all throughout as to what some of the numerous complex themes are: possibility vs. limitation, faith vs. doubt, hope vs. fear, surprise vs. predictability, uncertainty vs. surety, sex vs. friendship etc. etc. It's pretty unavoidable, however, that the one simplified overarching idea which encompasses them all here is that oft repeated word lingering in the chorus- "change".

It's what history and the future are separated by.
It's what technology does.
It's the excitement and suspense a great storyteller knows is implied in a single word like "then".
It's what happens in this story.

In a place where seemingly nothing surprising ever happens for a split second a man thinks he sees something which he has no proof exists. Does he choose to go on believing in it even though he has no proof or does he go back to seeing things as they were before? When he had no hope that anything would ever... change?

I could go on and on getting philosophically deeper and deeper the more I cared to (reminding folks that the eyes are often called the windows to the soul, for example) but as I said earlier all I meant to do is show that the spaceship, metaphor or no, is the structural key of the entire story.


Since just like "condescension" there are two entirely opposite main definitions for "patronising" I'll not take offense at being accused of it but rather freely admit it to be my intention.

Forgive my joking provocation of you if it seemed harsh. If you'll go back and look again, you'll see that I wasn't calling you stupid but rather encouraging you to try searching some more. I think that's an extremely important distinction. One means I believe you'll find the answer on your own if you'd only give it a bit more time/effort. Which is exactly what happened.

[steveboswell]

Originally Posted by Spamlet

...Forgive my joking provocation of you if it seemed harsh. If you'll go back and look again, you'll see that I wasn't calling you stupid but rather encouraging you to try searching some more. I think that's an extremely important distinction. One means I believe you'll find the answer on your own if you'd only give it a bit more time/effort. Which is exactly what happened.

I'm not sure if I'd love you to be my teacher, or if I'd hate it!

I'm glad that you took the time to justify/explain your earlier postings though. So thank you, if that counts for anything.

Bozz

[brb8y215]

spamlet, if i may. Being a student of music and being an avid music lover, id like to give my opinion. Now i agree with everything you said. and your explaination gave me a way to justify my question/answer to what the spaceship represents. Using the line 'theres no explosions here' and 'just another soldier on the road to nowhere' one can assume that the main character is part of a war of some kind, or even just people fight (just a side note, and anyone who lives in ireland can correct me if im wrong and if i am wrong i apologize, but from what i understand the catholics and the protistants in ireland have somekind of problem and thier using 'force' to solve thier problems, like i said sorry if im wrong) anyway damo could be referencing that and by referencing that hes saying to ami hey i love you i wanna be with you and he's using the spaceship as thier way to escape the war, which in essence means he's giving her hope for leaving, which, if your an avid fan of the tv show lost, you'll understand that hope is a very powerful thing.....anywho, thats just my opinion and spam i'd like your input on that...for that matter i'd like anyone's input.

[Spamlet]

Probably a little of both, Bozz! Actually I'm a very different kind of teacher depending on my student and have taught everything from K-12 and from mentally disabled to the gifted and talented. Honestly, around 85% of my students would tell you I was one of their favorites because what doesn't come across here in print is the fact that my demeanor is so gentle yet passionate. I'm a professional actor and in addition I have a strong background in improvisational comedy so we really have a ball because I treat class as an exciting and fun event.

I believe great teachers adapt to fit a student's individual personality so my challenging of penguin was only due to my sense of his intuitive power from all the posts he's written over the years and the fact that he's old enough and resilient enough to get pushed that way. Many kids love being provoked due to a competitive nature. Some kids are far more sensitive and must be treated far more carefully which is something you can see and sense when the class first walks in the room if you're in tune with group and individual behavior. It truly hurts me when I see kids who don't get the same opportunities and freedoms to grow in places where some have confused teaching with bullying.

Interesting theory, brb. You're correct that Ireland in the most general terms is a place where random acts of violence in the name of religion/politics/nationality have occurred for hundreds of years. I believe it's also fair to say though that the acts have only occurred in certain somewhat populated areas and that a large portion of the country seems to be quite rural, peaceful and simple. It'd be interesting to see how many Irish folks view themselves as being part of an ongoing war because of this as opposed to just being used to some violence being a part of their daily lives.

I'm not Irish and though it's a dream to visit and I planned to go when I was in England I never quite made it over. There are a ton of folks here (perhaps even the majority) who are from Damo's homeland who could certainly elaborate on this idea.

Personally, I've never assumed there was any war happening in the song. That idea never once occurred to me until you mentioned it. Instead, I took it that the word "explosions" was being used in the purest form of the definition: " a sudden increase or bursting of energy". Not an explosion in the literal "big ball of fire which destroys" sense but rather that there's nothing occurring here which could take you by surprise.

It's interesting that you've taken the spaceship to be a way of giving her hope because there's nothing that I saw in the lyrics to indicate she needed it. as I said before in my analysis it always seemed to me that the narrator was the one searching for hope from her.

He's the one who asks her to read him a story to reassure him so it always seemed as though she was somewhat maternal in a (non-Oedipal) sense. Even the fact that Damo includes the wall is a brilliant way of showing how much stability she lends him.

He doesn't say a fence because they're almost always flexible being half space and half matter (hence somone being 'on the fence' since it's a precarious place you can't comfortably stay on top of for long without wanting to get off). He says a wall because a wall is something solid designed to last and you could have a picnic even atop some of those wide, low, stone ones I recall from pictures and films of Irish countrysides.

Likewise, I've never thought calling either of them a soldier (it's unclear if he means her, him or both) was literal either. It's an archetype like a saint is and to me he's using it in contrast to show a duality. A soldier is someone who is asked or told to take lives in order to save lives. There's an inherent moral dramatic conflict in any man who does that unless he's a psychopath. A saint by contrast is one who's life or conduct is a shining example of the triumph of goodness and purity. That guy can even start out as a soldier but he's not a saint til he completely puts an end to all of his evil ways and then goes on to inspire others through love and kindness.

I'm half tempted to believe Damo used the word "soldier" just because of the marching imagery of how so many of us forge ahead through life with a steady, unwavering and measured progress which keeps us conformed and consequently "just another" rather than that war hero or someone who stands out as a leader. The fact that Damo says the soldier in question is on the road "to nowhere" is to me another sign that the image is meant to be a poetic one. A real soldier has a specific purpose of always aiming for something or someone somewhere. Even the "Lonely Soldier" of the title is told (by himself?) to go "home" (Knockin' on Heaven's Door?) because he's lost his function through no longer having a purpose.

I've never even really entertained the notion that the song was about leaving the boring little town or village or whatever. I think it's about catching a glimpse. One split second. An epiphany. Discovering a way of seeing all the things you had never noticed around you before or had long taken for granted.

[NaturalMystic]

Wow Spam can u do this for all of damo's songs... Id love to read your interpretations... not that I'm not intelligent to buil my own... i just really enjoyed reading what you wrote...

[Spamlet]

Like I said, I pretty much analyze and interpret texts for a living so it's the kind of thing that comes pretty easily to me (especially since here I don't have to OED every single word of it like we're required to for Shakespeare). The problem is I'm also the type that needs to be thorough yet I don't usually have enough time to do them fully.

Probably almost two years back I wrote one in defense of the much maligned lyrics to what I actually feel is a vastly underrated masterwork "Rule Number 2" but I never got around to completing that so it's still in draft form in hotmail ready to be cut and pasted when I get around to finishing it up.

Great to see another from my neck of the woods! I was born and raised in Cleveland. Now living in Montgomery, Alabama finishing up my MFA in acting. What's your major?

[PenguinBoy]

grrr, elequently clinical. I am not ur student. I'd much rather that u said that u disagree with me and tell me what u thought than telling me i've put in no effort, and that i'm merely "claiming" to be his fan.

I think i probably agree with you on terms of the space ship, but i didn't come here to get taught, i appreciate ur opinion and listen to it.

The "something unusual, something strange" i think is refering to love, or atleast a will to be with amie. and the "nothing at all"

The lines:
But I'm not a miracle
And you're not a saint
remind me a bit of Sonnet 130 by shakespeare. which is about denouncing all the unrealistic cliché compliments to a lover. And giving fuller recognition to the actual will to be with eachother. he's not offering to be a revelation to her life (a miracle) and he's accepting that she isn't the perfection which he is tempted to believe she is(a saint).

i think "just another soldier, on a road to nowhere" is a reference to him, not really knowing the master plan. as most foot soldiers wouldn't, they just follow orders. and to them it is a road to nowhere, because they don't know where they're going.
the road sounds like a metaphor for life. and he doesn't know where he's going to end up at the end of it.

And then after accepting all that he still asks her to come sit on his wall in the chorus, it's sooo powerful, love him

[Miss Pink]

forgive me if this has been said before, i just stopped reading cause my eyes hurt, but i alywas liked the story of the shooting stars in amie, so isee the spaceship as a shooting star, cause its full of mystery like a spaceship

[PenguinBoy]

shooting star = hope i like ! i like !

reminds me of that crusifix in the corner of that big pic called ambasidors.

[cille]

sorry, would you explain pingu boy? what picture, and why does it remind you?

[Spamlet]

Penguinboy,

A wise man once said "every man is my teacher".

Why get so offended? I always considered myself a lifelong student as I hope any good teacher would.

You're at the time in your life where being a student is basically your profession, I've been a teacher for a long time so I guess I thought hey, why not put the analysis into a humorous imaginary analogy of our life roles (it's why I used a smiley after-for future reference: I only do that when I'm kidding). You apparently took that little book report joke seriously, though. I took equal care to frame the rest as our step by step journey together through analytic discovery but you seem to have taken it as a dull lecture you'd rather die than sit through. Ah well, as I said I'm aware my tone comes out more obviously playful in person than here. Clinical? Well at least you were nice enough to include eloquent.

As stated earlier, I knew you were smart all along so that's why I cared enough to want you to dig a little deeper. I'll probably never get over how different this internet generation is from when I was a kid. We were always taught to respect our elders and I certainly never would've gotten snarky that someone twice my age whom I didn't even know wanted to share a possible solution with me which I hadn't found on my own yet. *Sigh* I'll chalk it up to good ol' defiance of authority figures.

Post for post our theories have all eventually proven essentially identical so personally I foresee no reason for any continued animosity.

[PenguinBoy]

Originally Posted by cille

sorry, would you explain pingu boy? what picture, and why does it remind you?

sorry cille i was a bit vague lol. it is a tedious link, but it just came to mind.



that's the painting, but i can't actually see the crusifix because it's so teeny. It's called The ambassadors and it's by hans holbine.

http://www.cwrl.utexas.edu/~nydam/courses/spr05/i/ambassadors/i/holbein_ambassadors1.jpg

that's a bigger link

i thought the reference to shooting stars sounded like a glimmer of hope, which is what the crusifix is meant to represent.


PenguinBoy's Spamlet Rant
many wise men have said many things that aren't necessarily wise. is there anything a wise man hasn't said?
anyway, "any man is my teacher" implies that everyone can be learnt from, NOT that everyone has a right to patronise in the same way as a teacher.

Originally Posted by dictionary.com

fo·rum ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fôrm, fr-)
n. pl. fo·rums, also fo·ra (fôr, fr)

1. 1. The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
   2. A public meeting place for open discussion.
   3. A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.
2. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
3. A court of law; a tribunal.

Originally Posted by dictionary.com

lec·ture ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lkchr)
n.

1. An exposition of a given subject delivered before an audience or a class, as for the purpose of instruction.
2. An earnest admonition or reproof; a reprimand.

the internet is practically anonymous, and it's somewhere which i like to feel free from having to respect my elders (respect is the wrong word, but it's the one u used) or make special provisions for my elders. i can actually find some equality. i'll save my subordinative routines for school. which is probably where u should leave your authority. i'm just as valid as you and age is regardless.

and i don't see why you'd think i'm offended by your analysis, because i'm not, i appreciate hearing it.
but your patronising tone is annoying and DISrespectful and i find it more so than than treating someone of a differnt age equally.

If you're going to repeat that u meant it comically then i guess i'll have to be quoting a wise man too: "many a true word is spoken in jest".

*tries not to get sarcastic*

"I'll chalk it up to good ol' defiance of authority figures." why not chalk it up to me telling you what i think, as i would with anyone else.

Rant completed


i need to calm - soo stressed

[gomezxico]

Originally Posted by walker

A long time ago I read a thread that said "eskimo friend" in the song Eskimo is really like cocaine or something. I don't think that is true. I think Damien really does have a literal eskimo friend

cocaine??? sure let people interpret things the way they want but coke? it's a little too far into lalaland if you ask me

[PenguinBoy]

i think cocaine is a bit too specific, i don't think damien is a regular drug user, who knows...

[gomezxico]

i agree, i mean unless the person who sees the eskimo friend as a drug had to have been with damien when consumption was happening, cause otherwise it just seems to random.

plus, who refers to cocaine as and eskimo maybe they both get associated with the color white, but nothing more...

[NaturalMystic]

Originally Posted by Spamlet

Great to see another from my neck of the woods! I was born and raised in Cleveland. Now living in Montgomery, Alabama finishing up my MFA in acting. What's your major?

Im attending Kent and majoring in Photo Journalism with a creative writing minor...

Where in cleveland are u from?