Lisa fired because she didnt like direction of band

[radiohead33]

according to lisa she had complained alot about the direction the band was heading in, and this according to her, is a main reason why damien fired her.

What direction was the band heading? I love 0 and 9, they are mindblowing records, but I dont really see too many differences between them, lyrically or musically. So Lisa's statement doesnt make too much sense to me.

[radiohead33]

additonally they havent spoken since munich. I still think its one of the most sleazy things I have ever heard of. She said she had been complaining about the direction the band was heading for awhile. He didnt have the decency to tell her in advance, the night before the gig, that she wouldnt be needed anymore? Why wait until a few minutes before showtime?

Again, I have said it time and time again, Damien makes some of the best music around, but as far as his personality and his demeanor and how he is as a person, he seems like a real jerk.

Even if Lisa was complaining, I dont get a vibe from her that she is a pesky person, she seems, the opposite of Damien, nice, friendly, rather quiet, and down to earth.

[davidcotyalex]

careful now as only jerks call people jerks.....................so I guess then by definition...........lol

and yes david gray did seem to handle the firing of clune with a touch more class than the dismissal on the eve of the gig

as far as direction that makes sense because remember that was when Joel started taking on a bigger role and they were getting into a lot more extended rock etc - I would say the gig at MSG's WAMU epitomized that direction for me........

[mario_d]

folk -> rock

Because of how O worked out, and the second album ended up not getting released, Damien ended up being more of a folk artist than he actually is. This style suited Lisa's talents and style much more. As Damien reclaimed his band, Lisa became less relevant.

I, personally, was happy to see her go.

[rice puddin]

my 2 cents worth-when i first heard O i was blown away,especially by the interweaving of Damiens and Lisas voices.I regret i'll probably never hear that live.I think we should reserve judgment on the firing since we only have Lisas side of the story.Things have certainly worked out good for Lisa and i think she has Damien in the rearview mirror and i think the media should too with the Damien/Lisa angle.It's time to move on!

[LaurenM]

I know I will probably get rocks thrown at me for saying this, but Lisa and Damien obviously had a "complex" relationship. It would be difficult to have your job depend on someone you previously dated, and when emotions run high and you feel as if your part in the band is being used less and less, I can see how one would take offense.

It came as a bit of a shock that they haven't spoken since Munich. It shows that there are still some hard feelings. Also, firing someone right before a gig was probably less "scumy" than you would think. It's not like Damien thought "Hmm, wouldn't it be lovely to totally humiliate Lisa and fire her right before a show?" It's obvious that emotions were running high (as they do with ex's) and Damien made a rash decision in the heat of the moment. We have all done it.

Furthermore, Damien has come off as routinely very down-to-earth and kind in interviews and during concerts. I think it would be silly to call him a jerk simply because he made some off color remarks during concerts at audience members. He is the front man after all. Even if Lisa had wanted to tell people to shut up, it's not like she would have ever had the opportunity.

All I'm saying is that I doubt Lisa is a complete angel (although she's probably up there) and Damien is a total "sleaze." Let's be realistic, people.

[Cerque]

I am not taking sides, that is just silly. I am sure if we heard both their sides we would understand in the end.

[Cerque]

Originally Posted by LaurenM

I know I will probably get rocks thrown at me for saying this, but Lisa and Damien obviously had a "complex" relationship. It would be difficult to have your job depend on someone you previously dated, and when emotions run high and you feel as if your part in the band is being used less and less, I can see how one would take offense.

It came as a bit of a shock that they haven't spoken since Munich. It shows that there are still some hard feelings. Also, firing someone right before a gig was probably less "scumy" than you would think. It's not like Damien thought "Hmm, wouldn't it be lovely to totally humiliate Lisa and fire her right before a show?" It's obvious that emotions were running high (as they do with ex's) and Damien made a rash decision in the heat of the moment. We have all done it.

Furthermore, Damien has come off as routinely very down-to-earth and kind in interviews and during concerts. I think it would be silly to call him a jerk simply because he made some off color remarks during concerts at audience members. He is the front man after all. Even if Lisa had wanted to tell people to shut up, it's not like she would have ever had the opportunity.

All I'm saying is that I doubt Lisa is a complete angel (although she's probably up there) and Damien is a total "sleaze." Let's be realistic, people.

I have never seen him live, please tell me the kind of htings he said to people live.

[Dean C]

Um, since when was it reported/confirmed that there was a firing. Where are you getting this (mis)information from?

[LaurenM]

Originally Posted by Cerque

I have never seen him live, please tell me the kind of htings he said to people live.

I remember reading that one time, after a guy was being super obnoxious, he got out his wallet, and said he would reimburse him for the ticket if he would leave. haha he said he's pay for the guy's parking as well. there's various stories of him getting riled up at unruly audience members. again, these are "stories" but there's no smoke without fire...

[davidcotyalex]

Originally Posted by LaurenM

I remember reading that one time, after a guy was being super obnoxious, he got out his wallet, and said he would reimburse him for the ticket if he would leave. haha he said he's pay for the guy's parking as well. there's various stories of him getting riled up at unruly audience members. again, these are "stories" but there's no smoke without fire...

san diego bringing the girl up from the audience...............

I forgot the name but fried green joe or whatever it was dubbed in terms of a made up tune with audience interaction at WAMU

the concert on traena last summer and audience interaction

the concert on iceland last summer and audience interaction

our "visit" with him in Louisville when he was in search of a 7up

I am sure the list goes on and on as to innumerable times when he acted in a way that is anti-jerk if you will

of course now that he considers himself a "rockstar".............oh wait that is a different thread

[Rai]

I have stated my opinion on the issue before and all I can say now is that the show must go on no matter how hurt your precious little ego is. Even Lennon, one of the biggest jerks in pop history wouldn't kick McCartney out ten minutes before a gig and they hated each other with an immense passion for quite a few years. The same with Waters and Gilmour. Hell, even Guns n' Roses stayed together at concerts and only disintegrated after the last tour.

[LaurenM]

Originally Posted by davidcotyalex

san diego bringing the girl up from the audience...............

I forgot the name but fried green joe or whatever it was dubbed in terms of a made up tune with audience interaction at WAMU

the concert on traena last summer and audience interaction

the concert on iceland last summer and audience interaction

our "visit" with him in Louisville when he was in search of a 7up

I am sure the list goes on and on as to innumerable times when he acted in a way that is anti-jerk if you will

of course now that he considers himself a "rockstar".............oh wait that is a different thread

you should really consider reading what I originally wrote, David. But here, I'll make it easy for you:

"Furthermore, Damien has come off as routinely very down-to-earth and kind in interviews and during concerts."

[davidcotyalex]

Originally Posted by Rai

I have stated my opinion on the issue before and all I can say now is that the show must go on no matter how hurt your precious little ego is. Even Lennon, one of the biggest jerks in pop history wouldn't kick McCartney out ten minutes before a gig and they hated each other with an immense passion for quite a few years. The same with Waters and Gilmour. Hell, even Guns n' Roses stayed together at concerts and only disintegrated after the last tour.

wouldn't you say that that animosity engendered itself well after their success had been realized? not sure just asking

and um er trying to be pc but I don't think anyone would have thought there was anything "romantic" going on with the examples raised......

all in most definitely the show must go on and yes he could have handled that specific situation better........

[davidcotyalex]

Originally Posted by LaurenM

you should really consider reading what I originally wrote, David. But here, I'll make it easy for you:

"Furthermore, Damien has come off as routinely very down-to-earth and kind in interviews and during concerts."

not sure on the disconnect but that was exactly my point - audience interaction, bringing audience members up to sing, hanging out at festivals with the crowd, stepping out the front door for a 7up were all examples of a down-to-earth dude.............

[#Ian#]

Originally Posted by mario_d

folk -> rock

Because of how O worked out, and the second album ended up not getting released, Damien ended up being more of a folk artist than he actually is. This style suited Lisa's talents and style much more. As Damien reclaimed his band, Lisa became less relevant.

I, personally, was happy to see her go.

Considering that I don't think he does rock all that well and that Lisa was about the only good thing about 9 I would disagree.

[davidcotyalex]

is this the point when ya'll start keeping score?

[SisterMidnight]

Originally Posted by #Ian#

Considering that I don't think he does rock all that well and that Lisa was about the only good thing about 9 I would disagree.

I disagree. I don't think you can pigeonhole Damien into any genre, but I do think he was accommodating the rest of the band, Lisa in particular, on 9. Which is why it wasn't as good as O, which was entirely his creative vision, and an indisputable masterpiece.

I wish Lisa would quit running her mouth and badmouthing Damien. He hasn't said an unkind word about her and wished her success. She wouldn't even have a career if it weren't for Damien, she should show a little gratitude and discretion.

[mario_d]

Originally Posted by #Ian#

Considering that I don't think he does rock all that well and that Lisa was about the only good thing about 9 I would disagree.

Lisa was downright detracting from shows after 9 was released. Getting rid of the setbreak, er, Lisa's solo song, was a major improvement.

You can form whatever personal opinion you wish about damien's ability to "do rock". It won't change the fact that "O" is in no way an accurate portrait of Damien. And he got pigeonholed into conforming to that style for three years. Lisa being a part of the band held damien back from playing the way he wanted to play.

Originally Posted by SisterMidnight

I disagree. I don't think you can pigeonhole Damien into any genre, but I do think he was accommodating the rest of the band, Lisa in particular, on 9. Which is why it wasn't as good as O, which was entirely his creative vision, and an indisputable masterpiece.

I wish Lisa would quit running her mouth and badmouthing Damien. He hasn't said an unkind word about her and wished her success. She wouldn't even have a career if it weren't for Damien, she should show a little gratitude and discretion.

Wow, that was not the post I was expecting.

[damiensgirl]

I went to damien's concert few days after Munich's concert and he was in very bad mood.He was clearly angry and the whole thing was really intense.When he did I remember he didn't do Lisa's part and he was more screaming than really singing.It was beautiful!!! I regret not seeing her but I wonder if it wasn't a lot more interesting...
Bell x1 was supporting Damien and I've got to talk to Brian and Tim after the concert.I asked about the reason she wasn't there and they said they weren't aloud to speak but she was happy.for me it sounded like it wasn't damien's decision.

[Cerque]

Originally Posted by mario_d

Lisa was downright detracting from shows after 9 was released. Getting rid of the setbreak, er, Lisa's solo song, was a major improvement.

You can form whatever personal opinion you wish about damien's ability to "do rock". It won't change the fact that "O" is in no way an accurate portrait of Damien. And he got pigeonholed into conforming to that style for three years. Lisa being a part of the band held damien back from playing the way he wanted to play.



Wow, that was not the post I was expecting.

what way did he want to play? what song is a best example of the way " he wanted to play"?

[Rai]

Originally Posted by davidcotyalex

wouldn't you say that that animosity engendered itself well after their success had been realized? not sure just asking

and um er trying to be pc but I don't think anyone would have thought there was anything "romantic" going on with the examples raised......

all in most definitely the show must go on and yes he could have handled that specific situation better........

Of course there wasn't anything romantic going on, but grown-up people should be able to handle that. Glen and Mar broke up in the middle of their tour and you know what? They continued it.

Every band has fights, that comes with the package. But they also have fans who pay to see the whole band and there is no excuse in the world for letting them down by throwing a tantrum and throwing a highly popular and insanely talented member. I was there at Munich and I would not have gone if I knew it was a Damien-only gig considering that it was Lisa was the thing that got me into O the first place and she was what made his music interesting.

[Darvish]

aw, is it that time of the month again? and we have to discuss this again? ;[...look what you're doing damien...wish we could be analyzing a set of new songs instead

[#Ian#]

Originally Posted by mario_d

It won't change the fact that "O" is in no way an accurate portrait of Damien.

That's utter bull****, it's an accurate portrayal of Damien at the time that he made the record. If you look at someone like Jim O'Rourke who has ventured into a vastly more varied array of styles than I reckon Damien could even countenance attempting it would be absurd to suggest that while he was working on a pop record like Eureka an experimental work like Happy Days wasn't an accurate portrayal of him. Or to bring it into perhaps more direct comparison re: acoustic vs. rockin', Nebraska vs. Born To Run; just because they sound totally different doesn't mean that either is a more accurate reflection of Springsteen as a musician.

Originally Posted by SisterMidnight

I disagree. I don't think you can pigeonhole Damien into any genre, but I do think he was accommodating the rest of the band, Lisa in particular, on 9. Which is why it wasn't as good as O, which was entirely his creative vision, and an indisputable masterpiece.

Who's pigeonholing?

I think 9 wasn't as good as O because for the most part the songs on it were inferior and even on those ones that were up to scratch he made some poor production decisions, the first one that springs to mind being how low in the mix the guitar was on "Elephant", for the most part the song may as well be acapella.

Originally Posted by SisterMidnight

I wish Lisa would quit running her mouth and badmouthing Damien. He hasn't said an unkind word about her and wished her success. She wouldn't even have a career if it weren't for Damien, she should show a little gratitude and discretion.

I don't think she has been badmouthing him, people asked her about it, she relayed the events of what happened without comment. And I don't think she doesn't have the right to say what happened, Damien spoke numerous times about the reasons why he left Juniper and that was a situation that he was in control of.

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by SisterMidnight

I disagree. I don't think you can pigeonhole Damien into any genre, but I do think he was accommodating the rest of the band, Lisa in particular, on 9. Which is why it wasn't as good as O, which was entirely his creative vision, and an indisputable masterpiece.

I wish Lisa would quit running her mouth and badmouthing Damien. He hasn't said an unkind word about her and wished her success. She wouldn't even have a career if it weren't for Damien, she should show a little gratitude and discretion.

That's exactly what I think, I'm glad someone has my opinion...

[davidcotyalex]

Originally Posted by Rai

Of course there wasn't anything romantic going on, but grown-up people should be able to handle that. Glen and Mar broke up in the middle of their tour and you know what? They continued it.

Every band has fights, that comes with the package. But they also have fans who pay to see the whole band and there is no excuse in the world for letting them down by throwing a tantrum and throwing a highly popular and insanely talented member. I was there at Munich and I would not have gone if I knew it was a Damien-only gig considering that it was Lisa was the thing that got me into O the first place and she was what made his music interesting.

sure but emotions do add a bit of a mix to the equation - all I'm sayin

there is a thread on the "official" named damien rice owes me $150 - I found that very funny - sure I would have been pissed at some van morrison concert where he threw a tantrum but then again in retrospect how cool would it be that you saw the man throw that tantrum..............

[LaurenM]

Originally Posted by Darvish

...wish we could be analyzing a set of new songs instead

agreed one thousand percent....ergh. the lack of new material is killing me.

[Moves-My-World]

Originally Posted by SisterMidnight

I wish Lisa would quit running her mouth and badmouthing Damien. He hasn't said an unkind word about her and wished her success. She wouldn't even have a career if it weren't for Damien, she should show a little gratitude and discretion.

She has been far from badmouthing him, almost thanking him in some interviews. It was far from ideal, though she is mature enough to understand there was friction in the band and therefore accepts the decision.

Interviewers constantly ask her questions about Damien, so it is hard for her to be discrete. Do you not think that if Damien was releasing a new album and have all these interviews that their would be some debatable words from him on the matter of Lisa. What more can she say to a question "have you spoke to DR since the split" than "no" because she hasn't.

[borneoman]

I have really mixed feelings about the whole thing. For me, Damien and Lisa singing together was heaven, especially when adding Vyv to the mix, the three voices of Damien, Lisa and the cello... and part of me is sad that this (let's face it) will never happen again. I think things were pretty rough between them for a while, and I think they did try for the sake of the music but it ended eventually. Sure Damien could have handled it nicely or more professionally but we all over-react in extreme situations, so I do understand. And sure Lisa can tell her side of the story but these things are best kept in private imo. Saying everything ended and that gave her the final push to go solo was enough.

And regarding 9, I agree that it's inferior to O because mostly the songs were leftovers (plus a few newies) but I still think it's an amazing album and I'm happy we have studio albums of all of those songs. Could have been better with more time to work on the songs/add new songs... and especially add that outro to Accidental Babies!!!!

[davidcotyalex]

well said marti!