Is Damien religious?

[Cerque]

I know this is quite a random question but I always wondered was our Damien religious in any way? His songs seem spiritual in parts and he makes referance to god a number of times. I know he isn't the beggest enthusiast on certain aspects of christianity. Neither am i really. I am more of a radical Christian. Anyone have any idea?

[Calum]

I remember reading somewhere once about him being raised in a catholic household (how strongly so i don't know), but judging from now e.g. me my yoke and i, i'd suggest he isn't that catholic... haha.

[davidcotyalex]

so to be religious you need to conform to some aspect of christianity?

[Rai]

He's an Orthodox Jew in disguise.

You can see him with his friends in this video before he had to shave his beard and go into hiding due to an unfortunate incident when he dared to collect sticks on a Sabbath:

[Dean C]

You are not allowed to talk about damien's personal life on here. Please remove your post. Flameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[cille]

Actually, this has been discussed before, in the ancient times: http://www.eskimofriends.com/forum/s...light=religion

[Spamlet]

Looks like no one mentioned Juniper's "Cutting the Rose" in that ancient thread either. I'd say that's the true indictment against organized religion that the poster in cille's link was attempting to read into "Baby Sister". I think the "keep drinking" part is to try to numb the pain and/or to forget that he's going to beat her again.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by davidcotyalex

so to be religious you need to conform to some aspect of christianity?

Er... no. I didn't say anything of the sort. I merely stated that it's likely he isn't a catholic, not that he isn't religious at all. There's such thing as reading between the lines, yes, but there's also such thing as reading something that plainly isn't there which is what you've just done...

[Cerque]

I always thought Damien was like me. I am a Catholic( although Rice is not an Irish Catholic name) I believe in god but not in some ways he is taught in church. I believe he is much more understanding than organised religion is making out. I think if Rice is a christian he is an open minded free thinking one.

[davidcotyalex]

err calum me thinks you need to chill a tad - I was actually responding to the guy in a forest..........

my point is christian and open minded/free thinking are oxymorons

[bearbait]

^ No, a person can be a Christian and also be open-minded and free thinking . . . it's very close-minded of you to say that a person can't be both. Sure, many Christians are close-minded and are spoon-fed nonsense that does not reflect the teachings of the ancient church, but not all Christians are like that.

[Cerque]

Originally Posted by davidcotyalex

err calum me thinks you need to chill a tad - I was actually responding to the guy in a forest..........

my point is christian and open minded/free thinking are oxymorons

You have just insulted many of my Christian peers as well as myself. I listen to what Jesus said, nothing else.

[Rai]

Originally Posted by Cerque

You have just insulted many of my Christian peers as well as myself. I listen to what Jesus said, nothing else.

So you listen to a guy advocating infanticide (Matthew 15:4-7 ), self-mutilation (Matthew 18:8-9), urges people to abandon their families and adore him instead (Matthew 19:29 ), says that people who practice democracy should be murdered (Luke 19:12-27 ) and strongly approves of the incomprehensible, obscene barbarism of the Old Testament?

Or the best part in the whole New Testament, the Saviour destroying a fig tree that dared not to be in the season for having fruits when he wanted to have a snack:

"Mark 11:13-14, 20
And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. ... And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots."

That's the guy I'd listen to!

[davidcotyalex]

what rai said - I think

I don't subscribe to man making his competitive ignorant mark on something as important as spirituality

if you have been insulted sorry for that - on the other hand you could just call me a jerk

[mariaoran]

ramen!

[Spamlet]

I'm what I like to refer to as a "recovering Catholic". I even went to a Catholic HS. I haven't been to church (willingly) for about 10-15 years now unless you want to count weddings/funerals/a few choice holidays that my lil' nieces were gonna be attending.

However, David, not "all Christians are" anything other than, by definition, those who believe in Jesus as the Christ and follow his teachings and examples. Just like no other massive group is truly "all or not all" anything in terms of individual opinion. Any individual who makes such blanket statements cannot be taken credibly because there is no factual basis to support their assertions.

Then we have Rai who encourages us to take a couple of lines out of full chapter context and more importantly to believe the passages mean what he claims they mean. As if thousands of years of biblical interpretation never happened. As if every single word is literal because the big guy couldn't possibly be speaking in metaphorical or parabolic terms. The very same closed minded, black and white type of attitude for which people like David have come to believe a Christian is only capable anymore.

But let's say we give him those. I doubt it would be tough to find five example of someone who contradicts themselves philosophically in an entire book of their life. Especially if three of those happen in one chronicler's account and this book was being written by 4 different guys (who almost certainly weren't even the same guys who were present when it happened but rather guys several hundred years later who shared their namesakes). It only goes to show what Jesus repeatedly confirmed: he was human. Therefore capable of having a bad day/ making a mistake/ getting tired, hungry, horny etc. like we all are. So yeah a few quotes like that even if they were true shouldn't preclude anyone from following a leader who obviously said so much that was worthy of being heard. Babies aren't bathwater.

Like I said, I'm certainly not down with the Catholic church. Mainly because they've committed atrocities ever since they became organized and because they have an "infallible" figurehead who ascribes the exclusive and intolerant dogma they continue to bootlessly and anachonistically assert. I also can't abide the judgemental hatred that spews from many "Christians" (like the Klan which truly believe they're doing God's work) who conveniently or ignorantly ignore all the numerous calls by Christ for peace, love and understanding of each other.

There are many in my country who think their country is the only one God loves and that anyone who shows compassion for others in other lands (like ones we're at war with) means you don't love your homeland. Rev. Wright pointed out that God damns those who believe they are greater than God. All we were spoonfed was a three word (two of them bleeped) soundbite of that 30 minute sermon.

You two are proof that, as usual, a side can only be strongly and confidently taken when you've bothered to really explore what the other side says first. Those who have the courage to venture from the comfort and safety of their cocoon to peek their heads out and gain some perspective of the landscape will find that religion is a man made convention and therefore imperfect but also that the existence of things greater than ourselves is evidenced everywhere the eye can see.

[davidcotyalex]

wow lots to take in!

I am only going to add to the comment at the bitter end that religion is a man made convention...............that I think is my point

I view spirituality as the point when the horizon graces its most beautiful sunset - I view religion as when lined up properly in the pew...........

[Timeé]

Originally Posted by Spamlet

But let's say we give him those.

Some of your language is sickly condescending

[Timeé]

Originally Posted by Spamlet

. Rev. Wright pointed out that God damns those who believe they are greater than God.

Did Rev. Wright point out that God is conveniently undamned for believing He is greater than mankind? I should have used lowercase 'h' for He for my argument but I changed my mind..

[srahman24]

LOL. Maria's flying spaghetti monster has to be the best part of all this

[Rai]

Originally Posted by Spamlet

Then we have Rai who encourages us to take a couple of lines out of full chapter context and more importantly to believe the passages mean what he claims they mean. As if thousands of years of biblical interpretation never happened. As if every single word is literal because the big guy couldn't possibly be speaking in metaphorical or parabolic terms. The very same closed minded, black and white type of attitude for which people like David have come to believe a Christian is only capable anymore.

Of course if we really want to play the apologist, we can say that all these are just metaphors. What exactly "15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." can be a metaphor of, escapes me and I am a Joyce scholar. He said nice and cuddly things too, but who didn't? And many of these others don't expect submission and servitude. He is also thoroughly guilty of upholding the Old Testament laws, that without question require slavery, genocide and the treatment of women as animals.

If you don't read the Bible literally, what is the point? If you reject it altogether and see it as a product of bronze-age barbarism then you do the rational thing. If you take it word by word, you do what a believer should be doing. If you are a moderate then you reject both reason and belief and basically pick and choose whatever you like from the books, according to your own morals. Then in the end, why bother with the book altogether? It is even much easier to find yourself acceptable morals in Shakespeare's works, why not have them as a compass?

[bearbait]

^ Actually, that quote could be taken to mean a spiritual death. That is assuming that the passage in question is actually a part of the original scroll and wasn't added later.

Not all Christian groups believe the Bible is to be taken literally. In fact, some Gnostics believe that anyone who takes the Bible literally is an idiot, that it is actually meant to be all figurative & symbolic, and that you are meant to ponder it and reach your own conclusions - that is how they achieve their gnosis. To the Gnostics, taking the Bible word for word is doing the exact opposite of what a christian should be doing. They believe that your beliefs should be dynamic.
In a similar vein, Kierkegaard believed that faith is just between you & God - and that going to church could actually hurt your faith, because he believed you should find your personal beliefs yourself and not be influenced by what family, society or organized religion says is correct.

Why should a Christian pick & choose whatever s/he likes from the Bible? For one thing, not all Christians believe that the books in the Bible all belong there, heck, even Martin Luther thought Revelation, among others, didn't belong. There are many, many books that did not make it into the Bible, and not everybody agrees that all of those should have been left out. Also, many things have been changed, added, or deleted from the Bible over time, some purposely, some quite by accident. Not to mention the fact that much gets lost in translation (for example, the Hebrew word for Holy Spirit is feminine, but, as English do not have gendered nouns, and it suits the Church just fine to not give the Holy Spirit a female gender, most English readers don't know this). Also, we do have to take into account the fact that many books in the Bible were written to a specific group at a specific time - some stuff in them may simply not be relevant today.

[Rai]

Originally Posted by bearbait

^ Actually, that quote could be taken to mean a spiritual death. That is assuming that the passage in question is actually a part of the original scroll and wasn't added later.

Not all Christian groups believe the Bible is to be taken literally. In fact, some Gnostics believe that anyone who takes the Bible literally is an idiot, that it is actually meant to be all figurative & symbolic, and that you are meant to ponder it and reach your own conclusions - that is how they achieve their gnosis. To the Gnostics, taking the Bible word for word is doing the exact opposite of what a christian should be doing. They believe that your beliefs should be dynamic.
In a similar vein, Kierkegaard believed that faith is just between you & God - and that going to church could actually hurt your faith, because he believed you should find your personal beliefs yourself and not be influenced by what family, society or organized religion says is correct.

Why should a Christian pick & choose whatever s/he likes from the Bible? For one thing, not all Christians believe that the books in the Bible all belong there, heck, even Martin Luther thought Revelation, among others, didn't belong. There are many, many books that did not make it into the Bible, and not everybody agrees that all of those should have been left out. Also, many things have been changed, added, or deleted from the Bible over time, some purposely, some quite by accident. Not to mention the fact that much gets lost in translation (for example, the Hebrew word for Holy Spirit is feminine, but, as English do not have gendered nouns, and it suits the Church just fine to not give the Holy Spirit a female gender, most English readers don't know this). Also, we do have to take into account the fact that many books in the Bible were written to a specific group at a specific time - some stuff in them may simply not be relevant today.

This is all great, but why bother with religion at all if in the end it is you who makes your own morals?

[bearbait]

^ Perhaps it is just something ingrained from having been raised a Christian . . . I went through an atheistic period for several years, but found myself being pulled back into Christianity (albeit a different sort of Christianity than what I grew up with). Then I went through another atheistic period, and now I find myself being pulled back into it. I love learning about early christian history. So I don't know, something about it is just pulling me in.

[verenita]

let´s speak damien himself



i know it had been posted more than once, but i believe it´s always well-worthy

[davidcotyalex]

Originally Posted by bearbait

^ Perhaps it is just something ingrained from having been raised a Christian . . . I went through an atheistic period for several years, but found myself being pulled back into Christianity (albeit a different sort of Christianity than what I grew up with). Then I went through another atheistic period, and now I find myself being pulled back into it. I love learning about early christian history. So I don't know, something about it is just pulling me in.

so you are saying when you feel you believe in God you automatically return to christianity?

one love one peace one God people.............organized religion by definition is devisive

I think Damo gets to the point when speaking to those that cling to one notion in an inwardly ignorant way, but I prefer the words of Sir David Gray from his biography (which is very well written and informative btw):

As for religion, “I don’t think you need a church to worship. I mean, I’m not a believer but I believe in what I’ve got inside of me, so that is religion in a way. Most of my songs could be interpreted as virtually spiritual statements, which is what they are – and we’re in an age of reigning spirituality, to the detriment of everything. And I’ll say unabashedly that we need spiritual guidance – but I don’t like organized religion one bit. I think its corrupt crap, and boring as well…….”

[bearbait]

^ Yes, I've always returned to christianity, I don't feel the same pull from the other religions but I do need to look into them more. I don't know, something about Christianity has always felt right . . . I don't know what all of my beliefs are, I am still exploring that - and I don't feel a real fit with any of the current denominations but some of them are accepting of that - not all denominations have that all-or-nothing mentality. For now, I'm still searching for what I believe in, it has changed over the years and I expect it to keep changing.
Christianity has gotten a bad rap over the years, and deservingly so. You are right, organized religion is very divisive, but a person can be part of a religion and not agree with the whole organization part. Some of the early Christian sects were quite against organized religion. I guess you could say there is organized religion and unorganized religion

[davidcotyalex]

good luck with your search - you were raised as a christian and most probably that is why you feel safest there - as was I and we celebrate Christmas and Easter etc because I do believe in Jesus Christ...........I just don't subscribe to the dictates the "church" asks of me nor do I feel that those that do not accept Him end up in some firey damnation

[bearbait]

^ Actually, most of the people I know who are Christians do not believe in "a fiery damnation", including members of the clergy.
I agree that my being raised a Christian has a lot to do with why I keep returning to it. However, what I believe now is very different from what I believed then. Some of the things I have come across sounded strange to me at first, but then as I thought about it more I came to accept things I didn't before.

[Cerque]

Originally Posted by davidcotyalex

what rai said - I think

I don't subscribe to man making his competitive ignorant mark on something as important as spirituality

if you have been insulted sorry for that - on the other hand you could just call me a jerk

Not my kind of thing. You are entitled to your opinion just like I.