Face it, Aung San Suu Kyi will never get freed..

Luoooooooo · 06-20-2006, 11:24 PM

And I noticed a sense of optimism when that one newspaper article said she was going to be freed a while ago.

People need to quit being the optimists and thinking that because the Burmese government has said it is going to free Aung San Suu Kyi, that they will.

They do that because they think people will get of their backs, and it seemed to have worked. People need to say, "No.We want solid proof".

What I liked about Damien's stand is that he wasn't hippie drippy and say "Yea man, we can free her" (Cough, we can "Make Poverty History" laugh laugh laugh), he just did shows raising awareness, giving the money to something raising awareness, not saying it could free her then and there. If more people were like him and said "I'M not going to free her, let's be realistic, but maybe I can help, just a bit".

I hate to say it, but to achieve success, individual people have to aim their intented results lower, instead of the other way, which caused the complete and utter failure of the G8 promises.

Five Leaves Left · 06-21-2006, 03:22 AM

yea she'll be freed just as soon as poverty will be history and we'll all live in a happy world with no money and no greed at all and everyone will be interested in the well being of everyone else

carvinC980t_kid · 06-21-2006, 04:32 AM

hey, sometimes all you and be is optimistic though! its better then facing the reality and while i know she will more then likely not be freed I can't help but think you need optimism sometimes to keep things alive. If the supporters of this cause of setting her free came out and said "to be honest... we really can't get her free with out them doing it on their own" what good would it do trying to raise awareness? if you want people to raise awareness then there needs to be, atleast to some extent, optimism! however, i do agree that being completely optimistic is just silly! we can't SET her free, but we can RAISE AWARENESS and to make people intrested in our cause there needs to be optimism to help people want to get involved while trying to raise awareness!

as far as "making poverty history"... well, that will never happen till all of the world becomes one massive communist party and we all together, as a whole world, get together to relive everyone else! and we all know this will never ever happen! just like the other issue of freeing this individual... we need to stay optimistic to help bring awareness, because to be honest... i'd never donate my money to something that people didn't have their heart sent on and convice me i can really fix this problem. if i was going to donate money to help poverty i'd be highly turned off of the idea if i was told "hey, you aren't going to save the world from poverty. you're aren't actually doing very much. face reality... we can't fix this problem... just help it," then i'd more then likely tell that individual to go f*ck themselves and take my money else where!

optimism is always neccessary while trying to raise awareness, but it musn't be taken too far leaving with everyone with false hope!

Luoooooooo · 06-21-2006, 02:49 PM

Fantastic debating powers there!

Gatsby · 06-21-2006, 03:48 PM

with that attitude no she will never be freed

mickey13086 · 06-21-2006, 03:50 PM

I believe you underestimate the power of political pressure. You raise good points about not being too optimistic. But like people just said, in raising awareness, aren't you being optimistic? And also even if the chances are slim that she will be released (which I don't agree they are), why not continue to put pressure with words. I know the powers to be understand that when the government says they will release her that it's just for leverage, and they know that it's all part of a political game (unfortunately).

I still believe that she will be released. I'm not saying this month, or even this year. But any kind of support, any kind of optimism, any kind of awareness will breed more of that which would ultimately lead to her release. I believe the majority of us realize that it is a slow process.

But I'm glad you brought this topic up Luoo, and ultimately, that Damien raised awareness or else I wouldn't know anything about things such as this and the crisis in Darfur.

P.S. I love the homer quote. One of my favorite episodes.

Wheels · 06-21-2006, 04:26 PM

Face it, Nelson Mandela will never get freed...

carvinC980t_kid · 06-21-2006, 05:19 PM

i hope you guys no its not just about freeing this lady! if we back down and show the opposing goverments that we won't do anything about it. then it shows we are cowards and is setting up the goverments who want her free to be run all over by whom is holding her hostage. if we don't step up it is only giving them more power and confidence to keep doing things like this. do we wanna be seen as a week goverment that won't do anything becasue there isn't much to do... or would it be better to be seen as the type who won't back down even where there really isn't hope, because it shows strong character.

Luoooooooo · 06-21-2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheels

Face it, Nelson Mandela will never get freed...

Yes, but Aung San Suu Kyi and her supporters, unlike Mandela, has never resorted to violence and bloodshed to get what she wanted. That is likely a reason why the Burmese government think it is easy to keep her under wraps.

Suu Kyi has had the chance to leave Burma, but has chosen to remain, as she knows she will never get back in. She knew she would get imprisoned again. Best thing is to raise awareness (and give money to the raising awareness charity Damien gave the london, paris shows money to.) about the Burmese government.

administrator · 06-21-2006, 10:46 PM

i feel sorry for anyone who thinks its pointless to be optimistic or to have hopes...

Luoooooo of course aung san suu kyi will be freed again... i don't think it's too absurd to think that if they freed her in 1995... and freed her again in 2002... that she can be freed again now... i think it's not just a pointless aspiration, but an obligation on behalf of the international community to increase pressure for democracy in burma. it's hard work being optimistic sometimes, but where would we be if certain people in history hadn't stood up to be counted... and to be so cynical and negative is to affront the sacrifices those people made for you... also, you're wrong if you think that Damien Rice didn't believe that Aung San Suu Kyi can be released...

and on a side note, the 'make poverty history' campaign was never intended to get rid of poverty... 'make poverty history' is a slogan that encapsulates an idea (UN Millennium Development Goal 1) that extreme poverty (which means people surviving on less than one US dollar per day) can be reduced by half by the year 2015. this isn't such a huge target that it can be written off so flippantly by you. it is a real and achievable target that will make a difference in the lives of millions of people. but for lazy and cynical people, it's easy to just point at a slogan and make fun of it.

Luoooooooo · 06-22-2006, 12:48 AM

Well, we have already touched on the 'Make Poverty History' thing on that famous thread I did slagging off Bono a while back.
But I think I have narrowed our differences Emmett, to this; I believe in cynicism in being the only way to achieve the great aims, you believe in optimism. Although there can be a lot to be said about the troubles of living in a world with everyone being a cynic, there can be a lot to be said about the troubles of everyone being an optimist. We wouldn't know the world wasn't flat for instance.

Problem is, being optimistic about the things leaders have done to achieve the aims we all want them to do can be very dangerous. Being patted on the back and saying what a good job they are doing "But they need to do more" only makes it easier for them to walk away, "Hey, I did some things right! You people congratulated me!". Instead of saying, in public, to his face, "Well done Tony in all your work so far mate in wiping the 18 countries debts clean", we should be saying, in public, to his face "Tony mate, don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to wipe the debts clean and talk about the "healing the scar of Africa" when your government has made Britain become the largest seller of arms to Africa out of any nation on Earth?"

carvinC980t_kid · 06-22-2006, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luoooooooo

Well, we have already touched on the 'Make Poverty History' thing on that famous thread I did slagging off Bono a while back.
But I think I have narrowed our differences Emmett, to this; I believe in cynicism in being the only way to achieve the great aims, you believe in optimism. Although there can be a lot to be said about the troubles of living in a world with everyone being a cynic, there can be a lot to be said about the troubles of everyone being an optimist. We wouldn't know the world was flat for instance.

Problem is, being optimistic about the things leaders have done to achieve the aims we all want them to do can be very dangerous. Being patted on the back and saying what a good job they are doing "But they need to do more" only makes it easier for them to walk away, "Hey, I did some things right! You people congratulated me!". Instead of saying, in public, to his face, "Well done Tony in all your work so far mate in wiping the 18 countries debts clean", we should be saying, in public, to his face "Tony mate, don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to wipe the debts clean and talk about the "healing the scar of Africa" when your government has made Britain become the largest seller of arms to Africa out of any nation on Earth?"

well, if you think being cynical is the way you will never amount to much in life.... like emo kids who cut themselves.

Luoooooooo · 06-22-2006, 06:57 AM

Didn't you even read my point about not knowing the Earth wasn't flat if it wasn't for cynics?

These cynics never amounted to much did they?

carvinC980t_kid · 06-22-2006, 07:44 AM

i'm slighty confused. being optimistic is what brought on learning that the world was wrong and not flat. now you also stated that "I believe in cynicism in being the only way to achieve the great aims," so now are you contradicting yourself? If you belive that it is "the only way" why in the world would you provie points to back up your opposing argument??

oh, and to be honest... no i didn't read your whole post cause i couldn't stand to read such an ignorant post when you are contradicting yourself.

audity · 06-23-2006, 02:05 PM

I was in Myanmar (Burma is the colonial British name) a few days ago and nobody believes that she will be freed. They hope and pray, but it is not very likely.

If the junta hands over control to a democratic government, all the generals will go to the Hague and be put on trial for war crimes. So do you think they want that for themselves?

carvinC980t_kid · 06-23-2006, 05:07 PM

^ very well said my friend!

06-20-2006, 11:24 PM	#1
Luoooooooo Eskimo Friend Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 71	Face it, Aung San Suu Kyi will never get freed.. And I noticed a sense of optimism when that one newspaper article said she was going to be freed a while ago. People need to quit being the optimists and thinking that because the Burmese government has said it is going to free Aung San Suu Kyi, that they will. They do that because they think people will get of their backs, and it seemed to have worked. People need to say, "No.We want solid proof". What I liked about Damien's stand is that he wasn't hippie drippy and say "Yea man, we can free her" (Cough, we can "Make Poverty History" laugh laugh laugh), he just did shows raising awareness, giving the money to something raising awareness, not saying it could free her then and there. If more people were like him and said "I'M not going to free her, let's be realistic, but maybe I can help, just a bit". I hate to say it, but to achieve success, individual people have to aim their intented results lower, instead of the other way, which caused the complete and utter failure of the G8 promises.

06-21-2006, 04:32 AM	#3
carvinC980t_kid Eskimo Regular Join Date: May 2006 Location: noblesville indiana, aka people with too much money producing ignorant children Posts: 2,662	hey, sometimes all you and be is optimistic though! its better then facing the reality and while i know she will more then likely not be freed I can't help but think you need optimism sometimes to keep things alive. If the supporters of this cause of setting her free came out and said "to be honest... we really can't get her free with out them doing it on their own" what good would it do trying to raise awareness? if you want people to raise awareness then there needs to be, atleast to some extent, optimism! however, i do agree that being completely optimistic is just silly! we can't SET her free, but we can RAISE AWARENESS and to make people intrested in our cause there needs to be optimism to help people want to get involved while trying to raise awareness! as far as "making poverty history"... well, that will never happen till all of the world becomes one massive communist party and we all together, as a whole world, get together to relive everyone else! and we all know this will never ever happen! just like the other issue of freeing this individual... we need to stay optimistic to help bring awareness, because to be honest... i'd never donate my money to something that people didn't have their heart sent on and convice me i can really fix this problem. if i was going to donate money to help poverty i'd be highly turned off of the idea if i was told "hey, you aren't going to save the world from poverty. you're aren't actually doing very much. face reality... we can't fix this problem... just help it," then i'd more then likely tell that individual to go f*ck themselves and take my money else where! optimism is always neccessary while trying to raise awareness, but it musn't be taken too far leaving with everyone with false hope! __________________ "And live for the moment, Lord knows I'm gon' die And when I get to hell, Lord knows I'm gon' fry" young jeezy - i luv it

06-21-2006, 03:48 PM	#5
Gatsby Eskimo Regular Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dublin Posts: 5,809	with that attitude no she will never be freed __________________ "Tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms further…And on fine morning - So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past." https://www.twitch.tv/simonjmusic

06-21-2006, 04:26 PM	#7
Wheels Eskimo Enigma Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Cork Posts: 7,900	Face it, Nelson Mandela will never get freed... __________________

06-21-2006, 05:19 PM	#8
carvinC980t_kid Eskimo Regular Join Date: May 2006 Location: noblesville indiana, aka people with too much money producing ignorant children Posts: 2,662	i hope you guys no its not just about freeing this lady! if we back down and show the opposing goverments that we won't do anything about it. then it shows we are cowards and is setting up the goverments who want her free to be run all over by whom is holding her hostage. if we don't step up it is only giving them more power and confidence to keep doing things like this. do we wanna be seen as a week goverment that won't do anything becasue there isn't much to do... or would it be better to be seen as the type who won't back down even where there really isn't hope, because it shows strong character. __________________ "And live for the moment, Lord knows I'm gon' die And when I get to hell, Lord knows I'm gon' fry" young jeezy - i luv it

06-21-2006, 03:22 AM	#2
Five Leaves Left Eskimo Regular Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 548	yea she'll be freed just as soon as poverty will be history and we'll all live in a happy world with no money and no greed at all and everyone will be interested in the well being of everyone else

06-21-2006, 02:49 PM	#4
Luoooooooo Eskimo Friend Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 71	Fantastic debating powers there!

06-21-2006, 03:50 PM	#6
mickey13086 Eskimo with a name..Chris Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Niagara Falls, NY Posts: 438	I believe you underestimate the power of political pressure. You raise good points about not being too optimistic. But like people just said, in raising awareness, aren't you being optimistic? And also even if the chances are slim that she will be released (which I don't agree they are), why not continue to put pressure with words. I know the powers to be understand that when the government says they will release her that it's just for leverage, and they know that it's all part of a political game (unfortunately). I still believe that she will be released. I'm not saying this month, or even this year. But any kind of support, any kind of optimism, any kind of awareness will breed more of that which would ultimately lead to her release. I believe the majority of us realize that it is a slow process. But I'm glad you brought this topic up Luoo, and ultimately, that Damien raised awareness or else I wouldn't know anything about things such as this and the crisis in Darfur. P.S. I love the homer quote. One of my favorite episodes.

06-21-2006, 10:46 PM	#10
administrator forum administrator Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,480	i feel sorry for anyone who thinks its pointless to be optimistic or to have hopes... Luoooooo of course aung san suu kyi will be freed again... i don't think it's too absurd to think that if they freed her in 1995... and freed her again in 2002... that she can be freed again now... i think it's not just a pointless aspiration, but an obligation on behalf of the international community to increase pressure for democracy in burma. it's hard work being optimistic sometimes, but where would we be if certain people in history hadn't stood up to be counted... and to be so cynical and negative is to affront the sacrifices those people made for you... also, you're wrong if you think that Damien Rice didn't believe that Aung San Suu Kyi can be released... and on a side note, the 'make poverty history' campaign was never intended to get rid of poverty... 'make poverty history' is a slogan that encapsulates an idea (UN Millennium Development Goal 1) that extreme poverty (which means people surviving on less than one US dollar per day) can be reduced by half by the year 2015. this isn't such a huge target that it can be written off so flippantly by you. it is a real and achievable target that will make a difference in the lives of millions of people. but for lazy and cynical people, it's easy to just point at a slogan and make fun of it. __________________ Keep checking the news page for all the latest Damien Rice news. Last edited by administrator; 06-21-2006 at 10:48 PM.

06-22-2006, 12:48 AM	#11
Luoooooooo Eskimo Friend Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 71	Well, we have already touched on the 'Make Poverty History' thing on that famous thread I did slagging off Bono a while back. But I think I have narrowed our differences Emmett, to this; I believe in cynicism in being the only way to achieve the great aims, you believe in optimism. Although there can be a lot to be said about the troubles of living in a world with everyone being a cynic, there can be a lot to be said about the troubles of everyone being an optimist. We wouldn't know the world wasn't flat for instance. Problem is, being optimistic about the things leaders have done to achieve the aims we all want them to do can be very dangerous. Being patted on the back and saying what a good job they are doing "But they need to do more" only makes it easier for them to walk away, "Hey, I did some things right! You people congratulated me!". Instead of saying, in public, to his face, "Well done Tony in all your work so far mate in wiping the 18 countries debts clean", we should be saying, in public, to his face "Tony mate, don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to wipe the debts clean and talk about the "healing the scar of Africa" when your government has made Britain become the largest seller of arms to Africa out of any nation on Earth?" Last edited by Luoooooooo; 06-22-2006 at 07:08 AM.

06-22-2006, 06:57 AM	#13
Luoooooooo Eskimo Friend Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 71	Didn't you even read my point about not knowing the Earth wasn't flat if it wasn't for cynics? These cynics never amounted to much did they? Last edited by Luoooooooo; 06-22-2006 at 07:08 AM.

06-22-2006, 07:44 AM	#14
carvinC980t_kid Eskimo Regular Join Date: May 2006 Location: noblesville indiana, aka people with too much money producing ignorant children Posts: 2,662	i'm slighty confused. being optimistic is what brought on learning that the world was wrong and not flat. now you also stated that "I believe in cynicism in being the only way to achieve the great aims," so now are you contradicting yourself? If you belive that it is "the only way" why in the world would you provie points to back up your opposing argument?? oh, and to be honest... no i didn't read your whole post cause i couldn't stand to read such an ignorant post when you are contradicting yourself. __________________ "And live for the moment, Lord knows I'm gon' die And when I get to hell, Lord knows I'm gon' fry" young jeezy - i luv it

06-23-2006, 02:05 PM	#15
audity High-Five Eskimo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: On the River Lee, County Cork, Ireland Posts: 1,397	I was in Myanmar (Burma is the colonial British name) a few days ago and nobody believes that she will be freed. They hope and pray, but it is not very likely. If the junta hands over control to a democratic government, all the generals will go to the Hague and be put on trial for war crimes. So do you think they want that for themselves? __________________ Ireland For Ron Paul "Don't worry, ma'am...I've got permits for these." -The Todd "For everything that's lovely is But a brief, dreamy, kind delight." -William Butler Yeats (1865-1939), Irish poet, playwright

06-23-2006, 05:07 PM	#16
carvinC980t_kid Eskimo Regular Join Date: May 2006 Location: noblesville indiana, aka people with too much money producing ignorant children Posts: 2,662	^ very well said my friend! __________________ "And live for the moment, Lord knows I'm gon' die And when I get to hell, Lord knows I'm gon' fry" young jeezy - i luv it