Lil bit o’ politics...sorry folks :-)

[cille]

[img]smileys/smiley3.gif[/img]that narrows the field mesureably. we have some in this tiny land.

[SisterMidnight]

^^ I knew most Americans would read that and go... [img]smileys/smiley3.gif[/img]


Once at Thanksgiving dinner we were discussing national health care (and I was in favor of it) and my brother got really pissed off at me and stood up, threw down his napkin and said "You're nothing more than a communist!!" [img]smileys/smiley5.gif[/img]I said, very calmly"Actually I'm more of a socialist." Course he took that to mean I'm a nazi. Ah well.

[cille]

^actually that was sort of the point i was trying to make (in my own clumsy way, i know).


i don't know if you were kidding or not, dylanfan, but the us seems to have lost part of the political spectre through mccarthyism (or at least i assume this was how communism became such a no-no)


i would also consider myself a socialist, more or less. the people i vote for even sing 'internationale' every year for old times sake [img]smileys/smiley36.gif[/img]- this always makes me cringe and consider voting for someone else, but there aren't really anyone else whose ideas i can sympathize with. and ppl i vote for are NOT pro a totalitarian system, they just don't automatically accept the system as it is, which i find a more sympathetic feature than anything else.[img]smileys/smiley1.gif[/img]

[jclapt38]

Dont get me wrong, im not saying it should be black and white, or that there shouldn't be other parties atall.All im saying is that we have 2 different main parties in this country, that have 2 different views, and theyare gunna both make different decisions.The balance of that keeps the country alive.


On the other hand, sister midnight,I would say that not seing a possiblity for one party to gain all the power would be like ignoring the past. it has happened, it can happen, its almost happened here, and it may happen. Great countries can only stay great for so long, until someone takes advantage.


Switching paths, im watching tv right now and i see this commercial that some group of idiots (if you ask me) put out. It's the one trying to discredit Kerry's time in vietnam. u might be able to see the ad from this page http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...rry.mccain.ap/


give it a try sorry if it doesnt work. anyway, for those orf you who have seen it, what do u think? and what do u think about mccain speaking out against it?

[jayavo]

Originally Posted by jclapt38

I disagree, the contrast between the left and the right is what makes this country great.

i would say that the wide variety of opinionscoupled withthe amendment of free speech is a major reason this country is great. boiling those down to one of two choices is a disservice to that which makes america great. they are two distinct and seperate things. all those different views.....given a choice between two sides? the people of iraq had one choice. we have two. forgive me for not doing backflips of joy. other countries have many more choices. israel for one. not us, the country with no less than 40 choices of toothpaste at my local shop and bag(yes i counted last night).

Originally Posted by jclapt38

And i know that you believe that the parties are nearly the same because you think that it is all controlled by some "faceless" rich people, but that simply isnt true. Yes there is alot of dirty money floating around but that doesnt mean that all these guys are on the same money crazed power hungry binge.

see i dont describe them as crazed or on a power binge. some mythical dark figure from some comic. i dont see it as evil at work. but i work for the legislature in new jersey. ive seen first hand how it works. heres a small example. our governor last year redid the corporate tax. closed all the loopholes. he left off certain companies. a few. one was continental airlines. 2 months later mcgreevey goes on a family reunion to ireland with dozens of family members. guess who footed the bill that was up near $30,000 in tickets? continental airlines. comp tickets. not payback of course[img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img] couldnt be that.


why can corporations even donate to elected officials? they dont get a vote.


and they dont control them by strings. its an exchange. they donate to get someone elected. that someone then enacts legislature that is beneficial to that corps interests. its not evil. but it isnt what its supposed to be. they are supposed to be looking out for me. they work for me. they dont work for that corp. i am shocked that more right wingers dont speak out against this. it is one of the main things the founding fathers warned against. having business control the country. via the politicians.

Originally Posted by jclapt38

the left want nearly all of the power in the government, and right is pushing for power in the states, which is how this country started outin the first place(aka. a republic)

and i agree with the states being in charge. so what do i do as someone vehemently opposed to the foreign policy of the right but against a lot of what the left offers?


and what do you do, as a state power supporter,when the right wing/conservative/republican president takes away the states right on certain issues?(attempting gay marriage, succeeded with legal medical marijuana)?

Originally Posted by jclapt38

As far as the media goes though, it is 90% liberal.

im so sick of this whole issue. if youre conservative, it comes across as liberal. if your liberal it comes across as conservative. so much of what i think never comes close to the news. i could go on and on about what i think should be in the news, but i wont. because from your viewpoint it is the opposite. im not one to think that makes one of us wrong or right. just different ideas of what should be covered.


but consider ........i think we would agree that most liberals lean toward socialism. so the question i want to ask is this: when was the last time yousaw a socialist candidate on the news? when do you hear the virtues of socialism expressed on the news? you dont. liberals tend to consider the palestinians as victims of state terror . when have you heard israel accused of state terror? i was watching cnn when israel went into jenin a while back. i will never forget it. he started the segment like this:


aaron brown: we have late word that israel has moved into the refugee camp of jenin. we are hearing that....and i want to just say here that it isnt possible for this to be true, but we are hearing reports of israeli atrocities against palestinians.


now i dont want to go into israel/palestine. but the point here is that he preempted any criticism. it isnt possible for this to be true. from cnn. the liberal machine. liberals tend to be a bit more critical of israeli policy that 'it cant be true'.


the news may be more liberal than you like it, but a liberal wont see it that way because it doesnt express those views.

Originally Posted by jclapt38

The two party system is what defines this country, and what makes it work,

freedom and choice is what i think defines this country. the 2 party system is just one more than the one we condemn in cuba and the one saddam had. i just cant understand why people think its good. the reason we have seperation of legislative and exectutive power is because the founders knew that power corrupts. and wanted to avoid too much being placed in one place. so instead we now have it concentrated in 2 parties that have the luxury of knowing we will never rid them of that power.


so i guess, i respectfully disagree. but appreciate that youve been respectful as well. far too little of this on the net or anywhere else.


jason


"Through clever and constant application of propaganda people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way around, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise."
--Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, 1923


"Fascism should rightly be called corporatism as it is a merger of state and corporate power--Benito Mussolini "Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day."
--Theodore Roosevelt, April 19, 1906


The people are the ultimate guardians of their own liberties. In every government on earth is some trace of human weakness, some germ of corruption and degeneracy ...Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone.


--thomas jefferson

[Lemonhead]

ooh ooh quote me quote me![img]smileys/smiley4.gif[/img]

[jayavo]

Originally Posted by Lemonhead

ooh ooh quote me quote me!

ok


jason


'ooh ooh quote me quote me!'


-lemonhead, 5:06pm,august 17,2004

[Lemonhead]

you rock![img]smileys/smiley4.gif[/img][img]smileys/smiley20.gif[/img]


thanks [img]smileys/smiley36.gif[/img]

[cille]

Originally Posted by jayavo

ok


jason


'ooh ooh quote me quote me!'


-lemonhead, 5:06pm,august 17,2004

[img]smileys/smiley36.gif[/img]

[mestonf]

[img]smileys/smiley36.gif[/img]