irish drinkers downed 7m less pints

[Gatsby]

taken from campus.ie

Pubs selling seven million fewer pints


By Caroline O'Doherty


The Irish Examiner 22/06/04



DRINKERS downed seven million fewer pints last month in a sales slump publicans have blamed on the smoking ban. The country's largest publicans' organisation is now calling on the Government to row back on its no-butts legislation and allow smoking indoors in specially designated areas.

The Vintners Federation of Ireland (VFI), which represents 6,000 publicans, said its members had suffered a 15-20% drop in business since the ban came into effect on March 29 and their suppliers' trade was down as much as 25%.

VFI president Seamus O'Donoghue warned the fall-off would lead to job losses and severe hardship.

"It doesn't make any difference whether you're in an urban or rural area, a tourist area or a place dependent on local trade it's affecting just about everyone," he said.

"What's really worrying is that this is happening during the summer in good weather. If this continues into a winter scenario, we can only expect a further decline. That's a major concern and people are angry and frustrated."

Statistics from other sources seem to contradict the VFI's assessment of the ban's impact. The Revenue Commissioners said while it was not possible to extract figures specifically relating to pubs, the overall take from excise duties was up slightly on the same period last year.

Beamish & Crawford declined to comment on its sales, citing commercial sensitivity, and Showerings said it was too early to draw conclusions.

A spokeswoman for Diageo (Guinness) said: "The overall market is down but it was down before the smoking ban so to what extent any decline can be attributed to the ban is not clear yet."

However, Paddy Jordan, director of the Irish Brewers Association, said sales were down 10% last month and the smoking ban was the only obvious change in the market.

"We were already on a downward slide but we felt there was some levelling off in the early part of the year.

But May was a shocker and from what we know about June so far, it will also be negative."

Mr Jordan said take-home business was up 4-5% in the same period but the home trade only accounted for about 15% of overall business. "It's a welcome increase but it doesn't compensate for a 10% decline in 85% of our trade," he said.

The figures are the first significant evidence the smoking ban may be having an impact on drinking habits as well as smoking habits. But despite the vintners' complaints, and reports Government party candidates took flak for the ban while canvassing for the recent elections, a spokesman for the Department of Health said it was working well and there were no plans to review the legislation. President of the Irish Medical Organisation, Dr Joe Barry, said a drop in alcohol consumption would be a good thing. "The Department of Health's Strategic Task Force on Alcohol is seeking an 18% reduction in over-all drinking per capita so anything that helps towards achieving that aim is welcome," he said.

i knew this ban wouldnt work what with a culture of drinkers... what do the irish do best? drink!!! and if we cant enjoy a fag indoors then i doubt we will be sticking around as long as possible


ive noticed myself drinking fewer pints and even when i do go out i usually buy a load of cans before heading out as i dont wanna be stuck in a pub rushing out for a smoke every 2 mins


i fear the real reason the smoking ban came into ireland first is because people think "if the irish can do it, anyone can" but drink is our economy and is one of the main factors of it


hopefully they do assign smoking area's, not as a preference to me but to all people. who should determine what we can do in a public house or not? yes it is bad for others around but they have a choice not to go into this area, or even inside a pub


whats everyone elses views on the smoking ban since coming into effect?

[mestonf]

my opinion is it is a good idea, but then what would i know i don't live in ireland. I am a non - smoker. But i think its kinda ludacris to depend a country on drinking because nowadays there are more medical breakthroughs and the numbers of smokers and drinkers will go down to hopefully where a whole generation don't smoke, if this doesn' happen ohh well life goes on.......

[paudy]

it's a horrible idead a horribly stupid idea, it's a nightmare usually if i'm playin a gig in a pub i can just snoke away but now i have to wait till the break and go outside its terrible


and even worse there was an article in the papaer last week saying the government want to ban sachets of salt


how ridiculous is that
Edited by: paudy

[Louise]

I like the ban and I am a smoker, but I can see paudy's point, as a gigger it must be difficult. BUt I quite enjoy popping out for a smoke and havnig a chat with whoever is there.

[paudy]

i dont mind popping out when its sunny but what about when the winter comes and its gale force winds and rain pelting down, thats whats really gonna annoy me

[sonofelvis]

[quote=Jeweller]


irish downing 7m less pints


[quote]


yeah, some of us have moved onto tequila (it makes us happy).


actually i believe its because its summertime,(so there are bbq's goin on), the price of aalcohol has gone up and some pubs are now closing earlier (my bar of choice now closes an hour earlier (dunno why?)).


i really dont think its because of the smoking ban, because most bars have adapted and have converted outdoor areas for smokers, the late bar i frequent has even set up a whole gigantic patio area where smokers now just go to when the get in the bar, its nice, heated and seated and there's music playing there too, its like a whole seperate little clique and there doesn't seem to be any fall off in business for the bar. but we'll see how closing earlier affects their business (must find out why??)


Edited by: sonofelvis

[paudy]

i drink tequila it makes me happy i drink tequila i feel alright.......


and so on



Edited by: paudy

[sonofelvis]

hey paudy where ever did you get that cool smiley??

[mestonf]

Originally Posted by Louise

I like the ban and I am a smoker, but I can see paudy's point, as a gigger it must be difficult. BUt I quite enjoy popping out for a smoke and havnig a chat with whoever is there.

yeah paudy that must be annoying

[spiff]

I'm not a smoker so obviously I'm happy with the ban but even my friends who are smokers like it. They're all meeting loads more girls than they used to as everyone outside smoking invariably gets talking to each other so they're delighted. They never used to bother chatting any girls up when there was no smoking ban.

I'd say people are drinking less because it costs so much in pubs, especially in Dublin. Why pay €5 or more for a pint when you can get a can for less than €2?

[sonofelvis]

Originally Posted by spiff

I'm not a smoker so obviously I'm happy with the ban but even my friends who are smokers like it. They're all meeting loads more girls than they used to as everyone outside smoking invariably gets talking to each other so they're delighted. They never used to bother chatting any girls up when there was no smoking ban.

I'd say people are drinking less because it costs so much in pubs, especially in Dublin. Why pay €5 or more for a pint when you can get a can for less than €2?

see!!! smokers are benifiting from the ban, they get their own little gang of buddies to smoke and associate with.

[mestonf]

Originally Posted by spiff

I'm not a smoker so obviously I'm happy with the ban but even my friends who are smokers like it. They're all meeting loads more girls than they used to as everyone outside smoking invariably gets talking to each other so they're delighted. They never used to bother chatting any girls up when there was no smoking ban.

I'd say people are drinking less because it costs so much in pubs, especially in Dublin. Why pay €5 or more for a pint when you can get a can for less than €2?

yep thats true!

[LostCause]

We got the smokers ban here in Norway aswell. Everyone has the right of a "smokefree" place to work. And I think thats true. But whats the use when you need to walk outside and ask the waitresses when you want to order??


What about all the lonely people which have all their social life in bars?? People who meets once a day down at the local bar and have a chat and maybe something to eat??


I think there will be alot of places closing down. Its seems like that here...

[Sionna]

I think the ban is great.I dont come home stinking of other peoples smoke,and all my friends who do smoke dont have a problem stepping outside for a few mins for a fag and most are trying to give up now anyway.The atmosphere outside the pub is just the same as inside the pub too.

[Dream Brother]

That ban was the best new legislative change that our poxy government has brought in over the years. I would hate to see it reversed. I dont believe those figures from the vintners </span>VFI. All the other bodies seem to be saying you its too early to accurately measure, but yet the </font></font></span>VFI come up with 7 million.



Maybe if the </font></font></span></span>VFI
and publicans decided to lower the cost of drink, they would get the
customers returning. Unlike petrol, drink is not a necessity, and i
think that people are staying away from pubs more because of the high
costs. And if so its about time people started doing it. They
(and everybody else in this rip-off country) need to start lowering
prices.



I think its fairly pathetic to hear smokers complaining about having to
walk a few feet outside a pub for a cigarette, when you consider the
alternatives (i.e. passive smoking related cancer).

</font></font></span></span>

[Sionna]

Well said dream brother [img]smileys/smiley32.gif[/img]

[paudy]

Originally Posted by sonofelvis

see!!! smokers are benifiting from the ban, they get their own little gang of buddies to smoke and associate with.

yeah but what you dont know is that we are plotting against all the non smokers
smokers unite

[Dream Brother]

Originally Posted by Sionna

Well said dream brother [img]smileys/smiley32.gif[/img]

Thank you Sionna![img]smileys/smiley4.gif[/img] I was half expecting a "What do you know? Newbie!" reply

[Banjaxed]

Originally Posted by Jeweller

who should determine what we can do in a public house or not?

Answer: Eh, the elected government.

Originally Posted by Jeweller

yes it is bad for others around but they have a choice not to go into this area, or even inside a pub

Yes, and you choose to smoke, that's your choice.


What about the people who work there in the pubs? I know for some people it's onlya part time job and they could do something else, but for others it's their career or they just really love that job. Should they have to breathe your smoke?


Come on, you know it's the right thing, just grow up and accept it.Edited by: Banjaxed

[Gatsby]

Originally Posted by Banjaxed

Answer: Eh, the elected government.

Yes, and you choose to smoke, that's your choice.


What about the people who work there in the pubs? I know for some people it's onlya part time job and they could do something else, but for others it's their career or they just really love that job. Should they have to breathe your smoke?


Come on, you know it's the right thing, just grow up and accept it.

should i have to breath engine fuel as i dont drive? maybe ban cars in that case... i understand that people who dont smoke do not want to breath other peoples smoke. im just suggesting possible solutions. Not saying they are correct...and to put a comment like "just grow up and accept it" really shows your own maturity level


i expressedmy opinion and it may differ from yours butyouhave to accept MY opinion. Its called freedom of speech and belief. and if you werent so ignorant you would understand that..

[Michelle Joey]

But Jeweller to say that non-smokers don't have to go into pubs is a little harsh

[Gatsby]

Originally Posted by Michelle Joey

But Jeweller to say that non-smokers don't have to go into pubs is a little harsh

sorry... ill go try and grow up for my comments

[Dream Brother]

Originally Posted by Jeweller

should i have to breath engine fuel as i dont drive?
maybe ban cars in that case... i understand that people who dont smoke
do not want to breath other peoples smoke. im just suggesting possible
solutions.

Engine fuel contains carbon monoxide, which is very poisonous, and all
the fumes contribute to the damage to the o-zone, and things are (be
more is needed) done to reduse the emissions. But (now i hold my hand
up and admit i dont know any figures) but i dont think the harm that
carbon monoxide poisioning does to people sitting in inclosed (work
&amp; social) spaces is anywhere near that of cigarettes. Due the the
numbers of smokers, drinkers, pubs and hours spent in pubs in Ireland.



The bottom line is that smoking causes cancer</span>.
You are left with the option to smoke, knowing this little gem of info,
and you do as you want to your own body (and rightly so). But you cant
argue that you should be intitled to expose other people around you to
these cancer causing fumes, because you used to be able to, and know
you have to walk outside.

[Dream Brother]

Just to repeat my earlier statement.........

Originally Posted by Dream Brother

</span>

I think its fairly pathetic to hear smokers complaining about having to
walk a few feet outside a pub for a cigarette, when you consider the
alternatives (i.e. passive smoking related cancer).

</font></font></span></span>

[Dream Brother]

Originally Posted by Jeweller

sorry... ill go try and grow up for my comments

Maybe Banjaxed </span>was over the
top suggesting you should "grow up", as i've had this argument with
plenty of mature educated people, that just dont seem to measure the
importance of protecting peoples health, agains loosing one of littles
little luxuries (i.e. sitting in a pub smoking). But i do agree with
Banjaxed that it is definitely the right thing.....and i'll argue that with anyone!





Being an ex-smoker i can sympathise with smokers, in that for me
quitting was hardest when sitting in a pub. But i had to quit when all
around me
were puffing away to their hearts content. Shouldnt it be easier for a
smoker to quit now??



edit:

Originally Posted by Michelle Joey

But Jeweller to say that non-smokers don't have to go into pubs is a little harsh

That is more than harsh. Its absurd. But Im sure Jeweller doesnt seriously see that as an alternative.


Edited by: Dream Brother

[Michelle Joey]

Absurd is a better word Dream Brother Sorry,I'm not thinking very creatively today!

[Banjaxed]

Originally Posted by Jeweller

Not saying they are correct...and to put a comment like "just grow up and accept it" really shows your own maturity level


i expressedmy opinion and it may differ from yours butyouhave to accept MY opinion. Its called freedom of speech and belief. and if you werent so ignorant you would understand that..

I didn't say you weren't entitled to your opinion, i was thinking your opinion was based on how you were feeling (i.e. pissed off that you weren't able to smoke in a pub anymore). I guessed that in your head you knew that the ban was the right thing to do.


My comment about you growing up and accepting it was referring to what i thought was you letting your feelings (pissed off) rule your head. I didn't mean to offend you, I was trying to get you to admit it to yourself. I wasnot trying to take away your "freedom of speech and belief".


Edited by: Banjaxed