Why not MP3 versions

[kermit]

scon, thanks a lot. it seems you're the only one who was willing to put some sense behind these arguements.


I have to say that the scenarios you've mentioned sound a bit far-fetched, and they still give no reason to take this joy away from people with no proper ability to get full-sized shows. and from what I could figure from your fourth paragraph (it's not your writing, it's my reading), it seems you agree that these shows should'nt be available only to a selected few. so the difference in opinions here is maybe only about how much is few.


anyway, thanks for shedding some light on this. it's just not enough to change my mind on this.Edited by: kermit

[cnpubwear]

B&Ps are very common, many trading communities have been relying on them for a very long time, internet makes it easier but easy isn't always best.


noone is entitled to the recordings and it is up to the tapers to decide how they are distributed.

[Banjaxed]

ok, don't kill me for dragging this thread back to the top of the list.


I have a suggestion/question.


Before I say it tho, I just want to say that initially I hadn't appreciated the work that tapers put into recording the shows...I do now.Also, I now understand the tapers/tradersstring desire tokeep lossy format (lower generation recordings) from being distributed.


What if mp3 versions of the shn's were to be made with an Audio Watermark?


Lets say we take a live recording of Amie and after 10 seconds of the track (or 10 seconds from the end, or smack in the middle, as long as it's some well-known location), we replace (or add to) the music, some audio sequence that says "This is NOT a 1st generation recording". This couldn't be removed without also removing the music.


Ok, it would be annoying, but at least 56kers would be able to hear the gigs. I don't think (I'm sure I'll be told otherwise) there would be any chance of these MP3s being burnt onto CD masquerading as 1st generation recordings.


I think it would bea good idea, but I'd like to hear other peoples' opinions. I hope I've explained things clearly enough, if not, just ask...


B

[tomthumb]

I'm new to this particular forum but the Shn/Mp3 debate concerns all music traders and collectors. I have come from trading analog shows in the eighties to the excellent Shn format in the nineties to eventually taping my own shows on DAT. After many tries and limited success I left the later to the pro's. Which brings me back to Shn/flac. Does anyone here remember trading analog and all of the hassles regarding generations and clipped songs? Just about the time you got that 3rd gen show you were at and had to have, you found a second gen on someone elses list and had to have that one and so on. Do you really want to do that with mp3's in the near future? With the low cost of cd-r's and the related shipping charges we are already so far ahead of trading maxell tapes that it is silly to complain about a little typing to get a show via a B+P deal. I started with one tape....set two of 7-12-76(dead). Now my analog collection sits in my garage for listening to while servicing the vehicles. However, I have a bookcase full of Shn cd-r's in my library, most of which were obtained by B+P deals until I had enough to offer in trade. Once I reached that level the tunes really started adding up. I got a real boost when I got got that blessed cable modem, but alas it is now gone and I am back to mail trades. I'm on a 56k modem and I don't even bother to D/L anymore. I guess it just sticks in my craw that after all the time and money that the tapers spend(recording rig, mics,tickets,travel costs etc...) not to mention their passion for spreading the music, that we the listeners are too lazy and impatient to set up a B+P deal or wait our turn on a tree. If we spent as much time working on trades as we do complaining on these forums, we would all have a great collection. And by doing trades etc... we all have the same high quality Shnrecordings(depending on source) without worrying about the confusion and generational loss of trading Mp3's. I ramble, but it is a subject I am passionate about. So to end, Respect the artist's, the tapers and the people kind enough to set up FTP servers and do a little work to build your collection until you have the bandwidth to D/L Shn's. Mp3's were a quick fix in the first place to long D/L times and the designer was not concerned with quality...just speed.


My rant is at an end, I apologize if it seems self rightous, it is not directed at anyone in particular, just what I have seen in the forum as a whole. I hope it makes sense and a few are able to glean some good points from it.


To the servers and to thekind souls who offer B+P's.....we thank you and bid you goodnight.

[tomthumb]

I forgot to say in my last post, I caught the letterman performence last night which was the first time I had heard D. Rice. Which led me here.....I must say he really caught my ear and I am glad I found this site....It seems very well organized and has a wonderful flow of helpful info back and forth. I look forward to learning and hearing more.

[Mario]

Tom

I agree with you 100%. The problem is, no matter how many times we tell the story, people just getting into taping don't understand what it was like to trade analog. Even more so, though, they'll never get what it was like to trade b/f the internet, when you actually mailed out lists.... They see something and want it as quickly and easily as possible, and I don't blame them entirely. Thats why responsibility falls on the more knowledgeable members of the community. The ones who know HOW to convert shn->mp3 are also the ones that should know better.

Not sure where you live, but Damien's wrapping up the US tour, in the Northeast this week, you might be able to catch a show.

PM me and I'll hook you up with a show off my server.

[touchingfreedom]

A lot of it depends on the artist involved...I've found in the past that tapers who tape Damien Rice, Dave Matthews, Tori Amostend to be much more anal about mp3s than those who tape Jewel or Alanis Morissette, for example...


Having said that, I would prefer a flac/shn show any day. But then again I've got a broadband connection so it doesn't make a difference. The people who 'control' the trading community need to adopt a wider perspective, imo. Not everyone is as into trading as the next person and trading shouldn't be just for obsessives and people with broadband. Isn't the whole point of it to get music out to as many people as possible?


Personally, I find many traders quite elitist and sometimes it sounds like they don't want to share their music with the 'masses', who aren't as into trading as they are.

[aeneas3]

<DIV>i have got to say that i disagree with the statement that "The people who 'control' the trading community need to adopt a wider perspective, imo. Not everyone is as into trading as the next person and trading shouldn't be just for obsessives and people with broadband. Isn't the whole point of it to get music out to as many people as possible?"</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>i disagree b/c i say that people are being a bit shortsighted. i have dmb shows from studio demos that are 10 years old. i also have ABB shows that are almost 30 years old. do you know how crappy they would sound if they had be converted to mp3 then to wave then mp3 over that time? they would sound like sh*t. plain and simple. trading for some people lasts a long time and is a hobby that will last a lifetime. lets not pollute the pool because more people want shows faster. if u want a show quickly then ask for a b&amp;p. i have b&amp;p'd over 20 damien discs as well as over 200 discs of other bands over the last year anda half as well as over 30 dvds. people dont complain because they have to wait two weeks to get a show. the newer generation of traders are spoiled by the idea of broadband. snailmail works well. </DIV>
<DIV>if people want to spread the music than why dont they work for it? after burning 20 damien cds for people i have not seen ONE person offer up a b&amp;p of a show that i have sent. not one? how is that for a community interested in spreading the music? everyone wants their quick fix for themselves. </DIV>
<DIV>maybe this isnt a great time but my server will be down for over a month starting a week from today due to me moving and getting married and going on my honeymoon. hope u all can deal with having 2 servers up. </DIV>
<DIV>also remember this: the average show is 1.1 gigs on shn which fits on 2 cds. why not just have a collection of cds since the shows are so big?</DIV>
<DIV>also it is possible to pay 25 cents per gig on a hard drive if u watch for good deals....</DIV>

[touchingfreedom]

But the point is most'new traders' (at least people I know) don't burn the songs, they leave them on their computers and then trade them digitally, so you don't get a degradation in sound quality. I think trading digitally is better because it is FASTER and gets the music around quicker, which is the whole point. Why wait 2 weeks for a show when you have it in a few hours?


Anyway there's no point to this discussion because no one's going to convince anyone else. And I like shns - I'll take your word for it that the do lead to a longer lasting sound quality. I'm just thinking about the people aren't "spoilt by the idea of broadband".

[#Ian#]

Originally Posted by aeneas3

after burning 20 damien cds for people i have not seen ONE person offer up a b&p of a show that i have sent. not one? how is that for a community interested in spreading the music? everyone wants their quick fix for themselves.

You haven't b&ped for me but I'll use that statement as a jumping on point. Personally I'm waiting for the DVD's to go into circulation before I start offering b&ps (and I think others may be in the same mind). At present I only have 3 shows so there is no great point in me offering because I don't have a that good a selection.

Congrats on getting hitched by the way.

[aeneas3]

thanks for the congrats Ian





well someone may want one of your 3 shows. whatever u wanna do though of course.


remember that the degradation of quality is in the conversion from shn/wave to mp3 or another lossy not in the burning.


gotta run guys.


come download, only open til friday

[#Ian#]

Well mine are quite widely available but if anyone wants to trade/b&p 2003-12-15???? Vicar St, the paradisso gig (mp3), and the london calling gig(mp3), I'll sort them out.

I don't have the dates of those last 2 shows immediately to hand.

[kermit]

the paradiso gig is 2003-08-15 (unless you're talking about the 2004 gig) and the london calling festival is 2003-04-19

[#Ian#]

yeah, what he said.