Rice is anti-american

[Wheels]

Tom just to be clear, I think you pose a valid question about whether political opinions or any controversial statements belong in a gig. Maybe we can get some responses to THAT as opposed to the more controversial 'are Damien's opinions valid'?

To kick it off, I for one think that learning how Damien reacts to the world is valuable to my understanding of his music. What do others think?

[Magnus]

The problem with topics like this is that people feel so strongly about their beliefs and opinions that they forget (or choose not) toadd that this is just their own personal way of viewing things.

[Magnus]

Originally Posted by Wheels

I think you pose a valid question about whether political opinions or any controversial statements belong in a gig. Maybe we can get some responses to THAT as opposed to the more controversial 'are Damien's opinions valid'?

Very nice Wheels! [img]smileys/smiley20.gif[/img][img]smileys/smiley32.gif[/img]

[#Ian#]

Incidently, Glen's joke was probably this:

How do you know E.T. is a prodtestant?

Because he looks like one.

The correct response to it is the following:

How do you know its a catholic spying through your keyhole?

You can see both eyes.

Tom if as a christian you were offended by what Damien said surely you have no choice but to forgive him. [img]smileys/smiley1.gif[/img]

[Miss Pink]

Isnt there a saying "you shud never talk about religion and politics in public, u never know hu u gonna offend"?

[tw59]

Ian#: You are very correct, I plan to forgive him, let me explain. My wife learned of Damien just last Sunday, if you look she posted earlier in the week as "tickets for Indianapolis show". She found tickets on e-bay, bought the O cd, played it at least 50 times, she read all of these posting at this site and others, we arrived at the concert and she bought a 5 dollar tote bag (which she left on the table when we walked out), she had a pen and paper and was writing down the set list (which she left at the table), she threw the cd (which she hoped to get autographed) in a trash can outside the building, and we drove 1 hour home in total disbelief in what we just experienced.
But you know what, his music is good enough we may try to listen to him in the future, she did burn a copy of the cd for my 20 year old daughter, whom we did not share any of this ugly crap with. My wish is some of this could be shared with Rice himself so he may reconsider at future shows what his real purpose is:
to play his incredible music or reveal personal views.
And if it is the latter, he needs to advertise this so his audience knows what they are paying to witness.

[Miss Pink]

Did u ever think twr that u might be offending people with wat u say! Im not tryin to be smart with u but ur making some very sweeping statements ther darlin'!

[-oli]

(every one ignore me, not here, but miss pink your inbox is full!)


(sorry, not here)

[Miss Pink]

i got space now

[hannadanna]

i think you're over reacting in the absolute greatest regard..

hell, if you have a problem with a wee irish man's insignificant opinions, you should see what your country's comedians are saying about ye..

[#Ian#]

Originally Posted by tw59

My wish is some of this could be shared with Rice himself so he may reconsider at future shows what his real purpose is:
to play his incredible music or reveal personal views.
And if it is the latter, he needs to advertise this so his audience knows what they are paying to witness.

Well if you really want, compose your thoughts, write an e-mail and send it to info@damienrice.com. If you don't want it to be binnedimmediatly I'd make sure that it isn't abusive. Maybe it'll be sent to him, maybe it won't.

Out of interest what would thoughts on him giving his political opinions be if he had said "I love the pope and George Bush is a great guy."

To be honest I think its a bit far fetched to expect to see posters for gigs with "warning: Concert may contain thoughts"

[Lhiannon]

Damien is an artist... and as everyone he has an opnion about what going on. I think its impossible to separate his music from his beliefs and opnion..


He has the right to express his opnion..you (tw59)have the right to be angry if you found it to be ofensive, but dont expect everyone to agree with you.. i am sure many other artists sure don't.


"To be honest I think its a bit far fetched to expect to see posters for gigs with "warning: Concert may contain thoughts" [img]smileys/smiley32.gif[/img]

[#Ian#]

Thats Magnus's next sig right there [img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img]

[Wheels]

Originally Posted by #Ian#

To be honest I think its a bit far fetched to expect to see posters for gigs with "warning: Concert may contain thoughts"

[img]smileys/smiley36.gif[/img] Classic.

[Burningman]

ok well i know this is random but i have two things to say about these convos.


I dont want to go to a concert and hear commentary on what is going on i the world when i see it on the news everyday.we all know that war is f-ed up; i do not want togo to a concert and be reminded aboutwhat is going on in the rest of the world.Iwant to be transported and i wantit to be an escape from the dailyshock and horror seen on the television.


He should speak his views through his music.


oh andone thing i kind of like to think of when someonewonders "whatJesus would do"is this-


we have NOclue what in the blue hell Jesus would do in any situation.


example:


no one knew that hecould spiton a blind man's eyes, rub itall over them thenhe would see !


how random and weirdis that?


the point is wedo not know howJesus would act to anything. he was divine and so the only way to understand his thinking would be to be divine ourselves.


pleaserespond and tell me what you think.Edited by: Burningman

[#Ian#]

Thank you, I'm here all week.

Try the steak and please tip your waitress.

[#Ian#]

Originally Posted by Burningman

please*respond and tell me what you think.**

Right, I'll preface this by saying that I'm not tripping. [img]smileys/smiley1.gif[/img]

What I never get is this. If God is omnipitant and onimpresent then surely he exists in all of us. And if he exists in all of us then we are God. And if the idea of the tridentine god is correct (and really who knows?) then Jesus is God but if we are God then we are Jesus. So then "what would jesus do" becomes simply "what would I do".

I might actually try to write a proof for this.

[#Ian#]

I tried but I'm too tired and its far to geeky.

[Livo]

okay now it's my turn to say something....



tw59, if damien is</span> so anti-Catholic, why are you the only one who has noticed it?

also, you mention The Frames as being anti-Catholic and anti-American,
but you haven't actually said what they have done to be anti-Catholic
and anti-American.

as far as i know, Damien only gave out about Bush. how does this make him anti-American? surely this just makes him anti-Bush.

[Cali]

There are things that go beyond any political beliefs and are plain wrong. Killing innocent people is one of them. But some people call it 'collateral damage'. I saw the images of 9-11, and I cried for the victims. But thecensorship in the States is huge. How many people in know who Ibtihal Jassem is? How many people cried for her or other people like her?


This is the picture on an american newspaper:








And the whole picture on a Spanish newspaper, without any editing. See any differences?:


http://estaticos.elmundo.es/documentos/2004/03/22/nina2.jpg


Maybe if more Americans were aware of what's really going on in Iraq, this war wouldn't have started in the first place.

[Jordan]

That guy who started this little rant doesn't speak for all Americans. I couldn't believe he typed all that out. He was looking to piss off people and congratulations he did. He's just an attention whore. Anyways, rock on Damien, lookin forward to your show.

[Cali]

You're absolutely right Jordan. We better move on and change the subject. Edited by: Cali

[Burningman]

God is omnipresent. all seeing, all knowing.


It is safe to say that he is everywhere in us at all times.


but because he is in you doesnt not me that you are of him.
Example: I live in a world riddled with sin and I live in it, around me at all times. But because it is all around me doesnt not mean that I am able to encompass it and be part of it wholly.


We are perfect beings from gensis. God gave man choice and man fell. Therefore we are made like God in the image of his son but we are flawed in orginal sin (garden of eden).


There are more things that i can think of if you need it. I am just offering my beleifs.


I like this I welcome debate. Thanks for responding Ian.
Lets keep it healthy like this though.

[unexplainedmuse]

i too love debates...healthy ones..but.... eh...life got a bit strange for more...the only mood im feeling anymore is 'dont know' so im gonna refrain from voicing my opinions on my religious beliefs..until i get myself sorted out a bit more


but i do have one thing to say..that kind of made me angry about being american [img]smileys/smiley19.gif[/img]

Originally Posted by Twr59

I am talking about an Irish outsiders Rice and the Frames coming into my USA, the greatest country in the world,

how he worded it...'my usa'


we were all from overseas at one point...until they stole the land from the natives...


no one in america remembers that though..and it was only a few hundred years ago...not long a time at all..[img]smileys/smiley19.gif[/img]

[Magnus]

Well Burningman,you wanted comments and I see that Ian has made some on the religious matters, so I will try and focus on the musical versus political part:

Originally Posted by Burningman

I dont want to go to a concert and hear commentary on what is going on i the world when i see it on the news everyday.we all know that war is f-ed up; i do not want togo to a concert and be reminded aboutwhat is going on in the rest of the world.Iwant to be transported and i wantit to be an escape from the dailyshock and horror seen on the television.


He should speak his views through his music.

A musical concert is based upon that there is an artist that is presenting something for an audience. Some types of concerts can be predefined "shows" while others might be highly spontaneous, improvisedand even interactive. The first one islike a winning team that you never want to change in fear of doing something wrong. The latter is considerably more risky andrequire a great deal of talentinthosethat are also capable of being true to themselves in a situation like this.In my opinion there is something special about the bonds that are being created between the artist and the audience in the latter type of concerts that is far more yielding than the more superficial bonds in the first type of predefined shows. In the first type of concerts you pretty much know what to expect and it can be seen as entertainment.For a concert tocontain the aforementioned spontaneouselementswithout becoming put onit is in my opinionrequired that the artist isnot afraid of nor even considering what people in the audience might think or feelabout what he or she is doing. The key to a "performance" like this is not to perform, but to just be. For the artist to be able to just bewhile playing a concert it is also important that he or she can also just be whoever or feel whatever it is he or she might beand feelin between the songs as well. It is a part of the concert and a part of the honesty related to it. Since you seem to want to be taken away and entertained itmight seem to you that my vision on this is somewhat pompous or even glorifying. I do not see Damien Rice or any other artists as devine persons. I do however consider real, honest and heartfeltmusic as having devine qualities unlikemost other forms of communication. In other words: Iget the impression that you and I seek different thingswhen going to a musicalconcert.


In my opinion television is in many cases an escape from the real world and I am of the impression that many people use / abusethis media in this way - as merely an escape from reality. You say that you see in the news everyday what is going on in the real world and don't want concerts to be yet another place to be reminded about what is going on in the rest of the world. I want Damien Rice and others that play music from their hearts to be 100% honest both in the actual playing of the music and as persons communicating whatever it is they have to communicate there and then. I don't want just entertainment. I want what they want to share -What they have to give of themselves.


The singer-songwriter genre has traditionally been based around lyrics and stories aboutmainly two things: Personal feelings around loss, love, relationships and the beauty of life and personalpolitical views andstatements regarding problems in todays society(for instance: War andpoverty) and religious beliefs or disbelief. This is the tradition. This is what the genre means to me. Likemanyother forms of art these themes arewhat is being communicated, what matters to us as human beingsand what makeshonest music (whetherwith or without lyrics)so universal.This is what is on the artist's mind and heartand what he or she wants to express.Damien Rice's capabilityof being as honest and open as he is is his gift.Honestyis what makes art like Damien Rice's music what it is.I also mean that Damien Rice is doing the only thing he can do by being honest and speaking his mind in between songs.In my opinionit isa right he is entitled toand as an artist he should have the same freedom of speech as "normal" people as well as his artistic freedom.


When I go to a concert with an artist like Damien Rice I don't want to be entertained -I want uncensored, honest and heartfelt emotions. I want what you seem to be tired of -I want real life.


These aremy comments on this issue.


Edit: Spelling of BurningmanEdited by: Magnus

[julia]

[img]smileys/smiley32.gif[/img] [img]smileys/smiley32.gif[/img] [img]smileys/smiley32.gif[/img] Magnus, I really didn't have the energy to respond the way that you just did, but I can safely say I feel exactly the same.. To the original poster:: I think that what makes Damien unique is his honesty, why would we want anything different. It is disturbing at best to think that you can't like an artist if they do not think like you do about certain issues.. Be open minded and listen to all different opinions and appreciate everybody for their differences, and for the love of God lighten up.. You will be alot happier [img]smileys/smiley4.gif[/img] and, Cheers MagnusEdited by: jbalogh

[SisterMidnight]

Okay, I already posted my viewpoint on the war in Iraq and American government in general on the "Is Damien's Music Appropriate For Kids?" thread..... and yes, Magnus rocks and has the right attitude (sweetie!) about others opinions and artistic expression..... and I really wish Ian would post his proof on WWJD/WWID (you're not geeky bud, just enlightened) and Unexplainedmuse-- yeah! It's our America too, and as Damien says "It's not hard to grow, when you know that you just don't know." Another new mantra of mine (in addition to "God bless Damien Rice") is "I know enough to know I don't know nuthin'!"


But on a lighter note-- Julia, I just saw him on the 7th in Madison and his hair was still long and crazy and looking like he just rolled out of bed (I love that look!), so he must have just cut it. He did kind of come out with an attitude/mood at the beginning of the Madison show but seemed to lighten up halfway into the gig and at the end thanked us all for being so "good". Some guy acted like he was going to start to heckle him at the beginning and I was fully ready to go over and punch his lights out myself [img]smileys/smiley18.gif[/img] but the whole crowd must have bad-vibed him 'cause he stopped. Damien and company were amazing, and the guy from The Frames came out and said "If you have family in the army get them out!" before doing a song (I think may have been called Red Car? with Lisa and the band) but otherwise the night was devoid of any political or religious commentary. But I would not have been offended if there had been comments one way or the other---


twr dude-- you and your wife need to get the bugs out of your arses and stop walking out on and throwing away and trashing everything that doesn't sit well with you on a personal level and open your mind to other people's viewpoints. How narrow-minded and egocentric of you both. Shame! (that's a catholic/christian staple, innit?) Okay, not going to get into religion with people-- but yeah, what would Jesus do?

[Burningman]

Magnus-

i totally agree with you on many great things you said in the
paragraph above.
i very much agree.
yet i do not go into these concerts look for a formulated set of
what has to happened for me to be dazzeled and superfically
entertained.
when i say that i want to be taken away from all the other junk
in everyday life, i want just that.
i want to listen to damien rice sing his damn heart out and
watch him do incredibly things in so many textures and
landscapes sonically. i want to watch him break a string in i
remember and retune his guitar on the fly not marring the song
a bit.
these are all elments of being taken into this world of live
music.
there are few artists who are able to just "be" as you put it.
so many artists have all these cool lights and awesome clear
channel arenas that make the crappiest of artists sound top
notch.
i do not ask for the fluff of what entertainment offers.
i ask for honesty from an artist.
if damien rice feels like stressing his political views so be it, im
not gonna be pissed off about it. but i do not want it to
overshadow the message of his many songs.

i kind of get the sense that you are labeling the genric musical
retard who goes to shows to get entertained- all style no
substance- and that is very wrong.

i probably will not have much more to say on this if response
are going to be in short essay.

but i appreciate it and its great to read other's thoughts.

[Livo]

Originally Posted by SisterMidnight

the guy from The Frames came out and said "If you
have family in the army get them out!" before doing a song (I think may
have been called Red Car? with Lisa and the band)

it's called "Red Chord" and the reason he said that was cos one of the verses goes

"I was in the army

When they called you back to save me

And I was resting softly

In the arms of my war"



By the way, you were very lucky to hear Red Chord at a gig, I've heard recordings of it being played live and it's amazing....[img]smileys/smiley1.gif[/img]

[Magnus]

Thank you Burningman! I appreciate that you clearify your ways of seeing concerts and live music.And by all means: You are in spite of "everything"an Eskimo Friend, which should tell something about what you feel about music! I am glad you sharesome ofmy views in this case.Not because I believe that it is the only "right" way of seeing these things, but because I honestly believe that there is morein it for the percieverifhe or she isopen for it.


I will admit that the lastpost I made as a response to your request for commentswas perhaps a bit unstructured. I was very tired, but felt I had comments and wanted to share them. It might have been slightlyout of focus in terms of thetopic since I was commenting on theimpression your postgave me about what youwanted whengoing to livemusic concerts as well as the part that in a way told me that you didn't share mywish for absolutehonesty from the artist(which was whatI really wanted to discuss). These two things are in my opinion definitely linked together and I felt that I wanted to clearify what I felt about it instead of just making a comment about notsharing your view. Once again: For the artist to be able to just bewhile playing a concert it is also important that he or she can also just be whoever or feel whatever it is he or she might beand feelin between the songs as well. If I didn't make it clear enough in my previous post I hope I do now:I got the impression that you by saying "He should speak his views through his music" were asking for Damien Rice to becencoring what he wished to say in between songs and this does not fit in with my view ofjust being. ThereforeIwanted to make those comments.I fully stand for what I wrote about my impression of you being seeking something different (and maybe even just entertainment) when seen in conjunction with the post you made previously and especially the part I quotedin the previous post. If you feel that my response was too long because I was not able to express my views clearly withless words I must say that I am sorry to hear that. The same goes for this one. It is notimportant to me, but Iam glad you do share many of my views. It was not my intent to be "labeling the genric musical retard who goes to shows to get entertained - all style no substance" and Ididn't want to give youthat impression either.You sound like someone that pays attention to an artist when going to gigs.That is a good thing that I wish more people did.I stillhopethat you can answer this question Burningman(Compare: "He should speak his views through his music."): Do you or do you not feel that Damien should be censoring what he wishes to say in between songs during concerts? Thanks!


Edit: Spelling of BurningmanEdited by: Magnus